Password protection at InfoItem Level (a workaround)

[Leoram]

I'm playing with this experiment moved partly by some requests asking for password protection at InfoItem/Node level. See:

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=1275&highlight=password
http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=838&highlight=password

1. I created an empty database with UltraRecall.
2. Then I deleted all Template items and all elements I could in it to make my empty database as light as possible.
3. Then I password protected my "light" database and imported it by drag and drop into another database (where I have all my stuffs) as a Template InfoItem. I like the small size of it once imported (in the order of 67kb aprox. -many stored documents are much bigger, and have not tried to make it even smaller).
4. Then I renamed my new Template InfoItem little resident database a meaningful name, say UltraPack. Now I can use it to build any new node/InfoItem based on this template and have password protection at node level.
5. Now I can store/link any info/document into the resident little urd database and have password protection at any level.

This is not a front-end solution but just a workaround. One issue with my approach is that UR can't detect keywords generated for documents in the resident database at least for now. I handle this by keywording it manually.

Hope this can be valuable to anybody.

Leoram

[skimmel]

I've been trying to something like this but have a question:

When I drag and drop my password protected database into another database, it's not password protected. Is there something you have to do after you drag and drop? (I'm just starting to use Ultra Recall so I'm sure I'm missing something obvious here.)

Thanks.

[Leoram]

Yes, you must be missing something. I tested this in the new v2.0 release and it worked ok. Try this:

1. Password protect your light, empty, resident database that will be used as a template (Tools | Change Password...)
2. Drag and drop the protected .urd file into your main database to be a child of the Template InfoItem.
3. Now try opening your imported template database by a click on "Click here to open stored document" on the Item Details pane. It will ask you for a password.

Now you can base on the template database any new InfoItem with password protection anywhere in your main database.

And you are done. Hope this helps.

[skimmel]

Thanks. When I drag the item into the other database, the item appears but it's not password protected.

I may not be understanding "child of the Template InfoItem". Do I have to set up the item in the parent database in a certain way?

[skimmel]

Ah ha! I figured it out: I imported the item rather than drag and drop and the password protection worked at the item level.

Now if I can only get the program to stop crashing on me!

[janrif]

Is this password workaround working well? And after importing the smaller UR w password, is it then possible to drag/drop items onto that branch as a chile & have it password protected?

Thank you.

[Leoram]

Originally posted by janrif
Is this password workaround working well? And after importing the smaller UR w password, is it then possible to drag/drop items onto that branch as a chile & have it password protected?

Thank you. Yes, works like a charm. In fact all items you drop unto the resident password protected urd once opened will inherit protection. Hope you succeed.

[janrif]

Originally posted by Leoram
Yes, works like a charm. In fact all items you drop unto the resident password protected urd once opened will inherit protection. Hope you succeed.
Sorry, I must be missing something. Creating a PW DB & then drag/drop or import into main DB just creates a link to another file. Is that the point?

[Leoram]

Originally posted by janrif
Sorry, I must be missing something. Creating a PW DB & then drag/drop or import into main DB just creates a link to another file. Is that the point? Please read:
http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/Manual/capturedraganddrop.htm

Ways to drag and drop information into Ultra Recall. Then read something more ahead: Move Here: Create a Info Item that has Stored Contents.

Don't forget to import it as a child of the Template infoitem so that any new infoitem inherits the new template characteristics. See step by step procedure way above. Good luck.

[janrif]

Don't forget to import it as a child of the Template infoitem so that any new infoitem inherits the new template characteristics. See step by step procedure way above.
Thank you, I did refer to the help link you offered & was aware of this drag/drop info. But.... what do you mean by Template infoitem? I have no template with such a name. Also what version of UR are you using? Thank you.

[Leoram]

Templates InfoItem (I should have said templates not template) is one of the default infoitems that come with UR. All items droped under the Templates Infoitem will also be templates and will inherit the properties of it. You will probably need to edit the attributes, change icons, etc.

See:

http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/Manual/template.htm

I have version 2.0e.

Hope this time you succeed.

[janrif]

OK, now I understand. Create a new template by importing your pasword file as a Template. Once that file is opened, all items inserted below that item will be password protected too.

Password file is reached by link.

I think this is what I was trying to understand at the beginning: the password topic is a 2nd file where all private material is stored under password.

If this is wrong please correct me. And thank you for all your help in this matter.

--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA

[Leoram]

Once you have your password protected urd file placed under the Templates InfoItem, and given a meaningful name and icon if you wish, all items you create by right clicking on any infoitem on the tree and then selecting Insert child or Insert sibling (choose the password protected template so as the new item inherit the properties), will be clones of that template. So what you get by this approach is a new password protected urd that you can use to place inside it all your sensitive material. This provides for a password protection at infoitem level anywhere you wish apart from the general password you have probably used for your main urd.

[janrif]

yes but you cannot see any inherited items below the template password file unless user opens it separately. Right?

[Leoram]

Originally posted by janrif
yes but you cannot see any inherited items below the template password file unless user opens it separately. Right? Yes. Now I see that your misunderstanding was originally due to the idea of creating items below the new password protected infoitem and not inside (or dragged into) it. See step 5 on my original post above. Hope this helps.

[janrif]

Originally posted by Leoram
Yes. Now I see that your misunderstanding was originally due to the idea of creating items below the new password protected infoitem and not inside (or dragged into) it. See step 5 on my original post above. Hope this helps.
Could you please do me the favor of listing the attributes of your 'private' DB template item? That will help me figure out if we are talking about the same thing or are like two ships passing in the night. :-) Thanks.

[Leoram]

Originally posted by janrif
Could you please do me the favor of listing the attributes of your 'private' DB template item? That will help me figure out if we are talking about the same thing or are like two ships passing in the night. :-) Thanks. Sure. Pls. see attachment. It's the attribute settings (System portion, which is what matters). Sorry if this has given you trouble configuring a template item. This is how things are done in UR when we deal with making templates. Remember to select your password protected template on the field named "Default child Template", and, if you wish, give a meaningful name and icon. Hope this helps.

[Leoram]

Pls. also remember to do this: In the option setting, set urd files to be open writable. You can find and additional helpful hint here:
http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=2252&highlight=protect

[janrif]

Originally posted by Leoram
Sure. Pls. see attachment.
Thank you. Yes my attributes were set as yours are but here's the next question.

I want to add a private item, so I create a new item with this "private" template. All this does on my system is to create an item with a link to the "private" URD if it is not open. Same if it is open.

There is no place to add data so it is purely a link to the "private" URD. The new item does not transfer to the other URD or anything.

So when you say you can have security at an item level, what do you mean by this? How do you add a "private" item?

If it was me, I would go to the private URD & add my item, then switch back to my general URD.

If I was searching for a private item, I could probably search from the gen'l URD & I would have to offer my password to be able to get to the file.

When you say you have protection even at item level, I'm not sure I understand. I'm not sure how this is different from having a file w a password except that it only opens when I am looking for a specific "private" item. Is that it?

Sorry to keep this thread going but I want to be sure I get it & I appreciate your patience.

[Leoram]

Jan:

Are you sure when you imported the urd file you did not get a link effect instead of a store effect? You have to be sure that you physically store the password protected database into the main database. In UR, when you store a file you can see the word [Store] after the InfoItem name on the Item Details tab. If you do it the right way then you'll see "Click here to open stored document" in blue on the Item Details pane. You have to click on it in order to open your password protected file. Pls. remember that you have to set urd files to be open writable in tools, Options..., Documents.

[janrif]

Originally posted by Leoram
Are you sure when you imported the urd file you did not get a link effect instead of a store effect? You have to be sure that you physically store the password protected database into the main database. In UR, when you store a file you can see the word [Store] after the InfoItem name on the Item Details tab. If you do it the right way then you'll see "Click here to open stored document" in blue on the Item Details pane. You have to click on it in order to open your password protected file. Pls. remember that you have to set urd files to be open writable in tools, Options..., Documents.
OK everything is as you say except that my stored file is read only. That's the problem for the moment. How to change to read/write in Options | Documents would be helpful as I don't see it.

The other thing I notice is that the URL points to the small URD but [b]not[b] to a copy of the small URD.

Some of this may have to do with a difference in versions as I am using v3 & you are using v2 (I think)

When I create a new item from the 'password' URD it shows up as a "stored" item & I have a link to click for the store (or linked) item.

Thank you.

[Leoram]

The problem of "read only" you have might've emerged from the fact that you could probably have the urd file properties set to "read only" before you imported it. In that case you need to go back and do a re-import of the physical file from the explorer (but change the read only condition first, by doing a right-click, properties over the file).

Your point on the URL that you mentioned is irrelevant. In my case I just used a physical copy of my urd and not the original. The URL address can vary depending on what the file was and where the user imported it from.

My version is now 3.0 as I upgraded yesterday, but I tested what we are dealing with and everything is OK.

If you have Store and also Link is because you already have a copy of the urd file you imported. Once you delete the file from the original place on the disk the link thing will disappear.

Hope this one helps :).

[janrif]

Originally posted by Leoram
The problem of "read only" you have might've emerged from the fact that you could probably have the urd file properties set to "read only" before you imported it. The "read only" problem exists when I click on the 'stored file link' & it opens after password. That file is 'Read Only'. However, when I check the File | Properties in Explorer it does not indicate the URD is Read only. I believe this is happening in UR but I don't know why.

I will pose the question in a different thread for tech support. Of course, if you have an idea abou this I'm "all ears".... or "all eyes" as the case may be. Thank you.

[janrif]

Originally posted by Leoram
I'm playing with this experiment moved partly by some requests asking for password protection at InfoItem/Node level. See:

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=1275&highlight=password
http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=838&highlight=password

1. I created an empty database with UltraRecall.
2. Then I deleted all Template items and all elements I could in it to make my empty database as light as possible.
3. Then I password protected my "light" database and imported it by drag and drop into another database (where I have all my stuffs) as a Template InfoItem. I like the small size of it once imported (in the order of 67kb aprox. -many stored documents are much bigger, and have not tried to make it even smaller).
4. Then I renamed my new Template InfoItem little resident database a meaningful name, say UltraPack. Now I can use it to build any new node/InfoItem based on this template and have password protection at node level.
5. Now I can store/link any info/document into the resident little urd database and have password protection at any level. [snip] Leoram I think you have to add to this one essential instruction:

The extension 'urd' must one of the extensions in Options | Documents --> extensions that are writeable (see Kinook's post in response to my question on Gen'l Discussion Forum)

The end result of this is a nesting of one 'urd' into another. Each 'locked' item created w the 'locked item template' in the master 'urd' creates a separate nested 'urd' that contains the private info.

[Leoram]

Originally posted by janrif
I think you have to add to this one essential instruction:

The extension 'urd' must one of the extensions in Options | Documents --> extensions that are writeable (see Kinook's post in response to my question on Gen'l Discussion Forum). Yes, of course. That's why I mentioned this very subject in two of my posts above. One of them says: "In the option setting, set urd writable files to be open writable.", and the other: "Pls. remember that you have to set urd files to be open writable in tools, Options..., Documents.". So you might have skipped that recommendation Jan. It is true indeed that listing this "essential" step in my original post might be of help but remember that in UR the capability of setting files to be open writable is a basic feature and is very documented. Anyway I'm pleased that you seemed to have finally grabbed the bull by the horns.

[elorup]

Originally posted by Leoram
Templates InfoItem (I should have said templates not template) is one of the default infoitems that come with UR. All items droped under the Templates Infoitem will also be templates and will inherit the properties of it. You will probably need to edit the attributes, change icons, etc.

See:

http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/Manual/template.htm

I have version 2.0e.

Hope this time you succeed.

Just followed your suggested workaround. Thanks for this contribution.

You mentioned to change icons. I couldn't yet figure out how to do this. You know a way?

Regards
Eric

[$bill]

To change the Icon to the left of an item in the Data Explorer-- change the value of the Icon attribute in the Attributes pane.

[ashwken]

elorup,

You might want to take a look at this thread:

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=1701

if you want to add some variety to the available icons within a UR database.

Later,
KenA