printing question

[janrif]

so I wanted to print a contact form/attributes, details & notes but how? It appeared I could not select an entire record at one time. Instead I had to go back 3x. Could this be for such a program as URp?

[ashwken]

Depending on the contents of the Detail Pane, it seems that UR comes up a little short on printed output.

If the Detail Pane is a Form the Print | Item Detail will not output anything. It will Print | Item Attributes for such a record, but this is essentially the Item Attributes Pane in printout (and sorting).

If the Detail Pane is a Form you can File | Export | to RTF which will give you the Item Title then a line for each FeildName: FeildData for each feild that has data from the Form (sorted in Form order).

There is a discussion here on exporting to html, From FAQ - Exporting:

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2054

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2104

If you're working mainly with data (Attributes, Forms), and not so much text, CSV Export is probably going to give you the most flexibility on the presentation side - I believe CSV has a 254-character limit.

As far as I can tell you need to pull the data into something that will give you a access to Report Layout for the data.

If you have access to MS Word a custom mailing label may be worth exploring, otherwise you'll need to pull the CSV into a database program and use its Reporting module.

Or may be there's something that will let you work the oml / xls output.

Later,
KenA

[quant]

I had similar problems several times, ... and wrote several times here that export/printing part of UR needs more features ...

Kinook is right that the fact we have attributes, items details/item notes, makes it not easy to come up with print that would satisfy everyone. For cataloging DVDs, which also uses attributes/data combinations, I use http://www.whereisit-soft.com/ which has a very nice and flexible "report generator", maybe Kinook should get a clue from there,
http://www.whereisit-soft.com/snap6.gif
http://www.whereisit-soft.com/snap7.gif

And regarding HTML export as well. I didnt know whether I should smile or cry when I was reading how to get HTML export (this should definitely be a standard export option), ... do this/ edit this file/ copy sth/ ... ??? Again, I know that there are 100s ways for HTML layouts and data organization of HTML page, but Kinook should provide at least few of them in the standard export directly to HTML ... without user intervention and tweaking xml files ... MyBase for example does it very nicely ...

[kinook]

If focus is in a form field, print/preview will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view. If focus is in the rich text area of the form, print/preview will print the rich text of the item. If focus is in another pane, choosing Item Details on the Print/Preview dialog will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view.

Item notes cannot currently be printed with the form+rich text. It can be printed separately via Print with the Notes pane focused or by choosing Item Notes when printing with another pane (except Details) focused.

[quant]

Originally posted by kinook
Item notes cannot currently be printed with the form+rich text. It can be printed separately via Print with the Notes pane focused or by choosing Item Notes when printing with another pane (except Details) focused.

sad :(

[ashwken]

Originally posted by kinook
If focus is in a form field, print/preview will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view. If focus is in the rich text area of the form, print/preview will print the rich text of the item. If focus is in another pane, choosing Item Details on the Print/Preview dialog will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view.
My apologies for the incorrect information, to print the contents of a Form focus must be on the Detail Pane, then the print function will give you the contents of the form for all feilds that have data present.

If focus is on an Item in the Data Explorer Pane, and that Item contains a Form, then Print | Item Detail will not print anything, but Print | Item Attributes will give you pritned output same as the Item Attributes Display.


Originally posted by quant
And regarding HTML export as well. I didnt know whether I should smile or cry when I was reading how to get HTML export (this should definitely be a standard export option), ... do this/ edit this file/ copy sth/ ... ???
Yes, it would almost be easier to just distrubute the UR data file and the UR viewer.

[$bill]

Originally posted by quant
It doesn't amaze me. It's just a classic database with a decent frontend, and a looooooooooooot of features thrown in :)
I love it!!!

On printing (or report generation in databasease).

quant....guess you are eagerly anticipating a decent backend too....

[quant]

Originally posted by $bill
On printing (or report generation in databasease).

quant....guess you are eagerly anticipating a decent backend too....

is it that obvious? ;-)

[janrif]

Originally posted by kinook
If focus is in a form field, print/preview will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view. [snip] Ok, so how do I select several items with forms & RTF & print them out in some useful format? Thank you.

[kinook]

Originally posted by janrif
Ok, so how do I select several items with forms & RTF & print them out in some useful format? Thank you.
If focus is in another pane, choosing Item Details on the Print/Preview dialog will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view (applies to multiple selection as well), or use File | Export -> RTF.

[janrif]

Originally posted by kinook
If focus is in another pane, choosing Item Details on the Print/Preview dialog will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view (applies to multiple selection as well), or use File | Export -> RTF. OK so print works for a single record & Export RTF works for selected items but, as we know, notes are not included. Is that going to change? So let's say user wants to export/import to another program, I guess user would export in CSV -- still w/o notes? IOW, there is no way to export all data in some form. Is that right? Thanks.

[quant]

Originally posted by kinook
If focus is in another pane, choosing Item Details on the Print/Preview dialog will print the form attributes and any rich text in the detail view (applies to multiple selection as well), or use File | Export -> RTF.

I suggest that Item Details and Item notes should be check boxes (not radio buttons), ie. user can choose whether to print Details and/or Notes ...

[$bill]

Originally posted by janrif
So let's say user wants to export/import to another program, I guess user would export in CSV -- still w/o notes?

I just did a test export to CSV - my Item Notes exported OK along with the rest of the attributes I selected.

[quant]

Originally posted by $bill
I just did a test export to CSV - my Item Notes exported OK along with the rest of the attributes I selected.

plain text export in the 21st century?

[ashwken]

Originally posted by $bill
I just did a test export to CSV - my Item Notes exported OK along with the rest of the attributes I selected.

Maybe Kinook can answer this, is there a field length or character limit when exporting to CSV?

[quant]

Originally posted by ashwken
Maybe Kinook can answer this, is there a field length or character limit when exporting to CSV?

CSV is good for attributes, but cannot be considered as an export solution of even plain text, there are many problems with characters like " ' ; , \tab and escaping them in a consistent way ...

[kinook]

Originally posted by janrif
OK so print works for a single record & Export RTF works for selected items
Multiple selection print also works (focus the Data Explorer pane before print/preview).

notes are not included. Is that going to change?
Item Notes can also be printed (separately) for multiple selection. Enhanced support for printing of notes is on the list.

So let's say user wants to export/import to another program, I guess user would export in CSV -- still w/o notes? IOW, there is no way to export all data in some form. Is that right?
XML is the most comprehensive export format (can include hierarchy, attributes, stored document, detail / notes RTF, keywords, etc.).
http://www.kinook.com/UR/Manual/xmlexport.htm

[janrif]

Originally posted by kinook
Multiple selection print also works (focus the Data Explorer pane before print/preview).[snip]XML is the most comprehensive export format (can include hierarchy, attributes, stored document, detail / notes RTF, keywords, etc.).
http://www.kinook.com/UR/Manual/xmlexport.htm OK, I guess I have to learn about XML. I don't understand/know how to work w it at this time.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by kinook
XML is the most comprehensive export format (can include hierarchy, attributes, stored document, detail / notes RTF, keywords, etc.).
http://www.kinook.com/UR/Manual/xmlexport.htm

OK, so you do the export to xml, and you've got control over what is exported, and you can save your export settings, then what....

You've got this xml file that is essentially a copy of the UR database (or a portion of), except in a different format - xml is a data exchange medium (actually just text, open with Notepad).

What tools are available to control the presentation of this xml data?

Anybody have experience with this next step...

[kevina]

What type of output are you looking for?

Typically one uses an xslt transformation on an xml file to produce the desired output, two different transforms (to html) are described here (from the FAQ (http://kinook.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26)):
-> Exporting UR data to an HTML outline (http://kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2104)
-> Exporting UR data to HTML (http://kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2054)

These transforms can be simple or complex (there is a learning curve to writing xslt). If you are looking for a specific type of output which might be of interest to a significant number of UR customers, we might be able to assist (note: we are also considering a way to better integrate the use of these transforms).

[ashwken]

Originally posted by kevina
What type of output are you looking for?

Typically one uses an xslt transformation on an xml file to produce the desired output, two different transforms (to html) are described here (from the FAQ (http://kinook.com/Forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26)):
-> Exporting UR data to an HTML outline (http://kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2104)
-> Exporting UR data to HTML (http://kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2054)


OK, I've put some time into working with the (4) zipfiles attached to these (2) Forum Threads:

http://kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2054

Allows for presentation of data.

1 - 09-13-2006 - export.zip

2 - 09-22-2006 - export2.zip


http://kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2104

Allows for presentation of an outline.

1 - 10-17-2006 - export.zip (internal date of 09-22-2006)

2 - 11-10-2006 - omltohtmltree.zip


It should be noted that the (2) files named export.zip are distinctly different and care should be taken when downloading not to overwrite.

The Instructions contained in each forum message is duplicated as Commented Text at the top of each *.xslt (open with Notepad).

For testing purposes you might want to create an Export SubFolder under your data location for each zipfile, then run the same UR Export to OML/XML for each of these SubFolders. Be sure to name the exported file - export.xml.

For testing purposes select to export ALL Attributes and recurse.

It should be noted that the insertion of the code snippet (into the export.xml) described in Step-4 of both messages is only required for the first export.zip file, the subsequent zipfiles all contain a Transform vbs file that references the existing .xslt during the transform.

The convert.xslt introduced in the zipfiles of the first message allows for the hiding (no, default) or showing (yes) of Attributes, this yes/no value is changed in the thrid line of the xml style description which begins after the end of the Commented Text (Instructions), as described in Step-6 of the first message.

If Attributes were selected to be part of the export.xml they will be present in the toc.html created by the transform found in export2.zip, you simply have the choice of hiding (default) or showing.

The process available in export2.zip offers a means to distribute data in html format. If you were to create a series of Export SubFolders under your data location, then unzip export2.zip to each of these and set the show/hide Attribute parameter (in convert.xslt) as desired, each subfolder could then contain a unqiue UR export.xml - only the transform vbs would need to be run to create the toc.html (index.html and toc.html comprise your data presentation).

Open index.html and you have a 2-pane frameset with the outline tree in the LH-pane, and the contents of the Detail Pane in the RH-pane - if the Detail Pane contains rtf. If the Detail Pane contains a Form, then the RH-pane will show the contents of the current folder. Attributes are shown as a child of the Item in the LH-pane; and you get Attributes for everything, both Folders and Items.

For the export.zip presented in the second thread (threadid=2104), it introduces a new xml style sheet outline.xslt that allows for outline numbering in the LH-pane, but does not allows for the display of Attributes.

It should be noted that a typo occurs in Step-5 of the first message, the second code snippet should read name="numbering", this typo is also found in the Commented Text of outline.xslt.

The third code snippet of Step-5, controls numbering format, can be found about halfway into the outline.xslt file - underneath a section describing the different format values.

For the zipfile omltohtmltree.zip - a .cmd file is introduced (these used to be called batch files, .bat, it's just text), here are its contents:


REM the 3 arguments are:
REM #1 (export.oml) = the source oml file (exported from Ultra Recall)
REM #2 (outlineTree.xslt) = the transforming xslt file
REM #3 (exportTree.html) = the output html file (will be overwritten if already exists)

start TransformExportTree.vbs export.oml outlineTree.xslt exportTree.html


The first three lines are REMarks, the last line is the command that executes.

This file, TransformExportTree.cmd, could be copied to the export subfolders created in conjunction with export2.zip. The new command line would look like this:

start TransformExport.vbs export.xml convert.xslt toc.html

Maybe this will help others.

Originally posted by kevina

These transforms can be simple or complex (there is a learning curve to writing xslt). If you are looking for a specific type of output which might be of interest to a significant number of UR customers, we might be able to assist (note: we are also considering a way to better integrate the use of these transforms).

I'd like more control over the "Page" presented for the Detail and Child items.

By way of example I would point to WebIdeaTree (http://www.webideatree.com). Granted, they are dealing with CSS and HTML, but they've broken the Page down into a series of Structured Elements that parrallel what's available in UR:

Title, Text (body), Image List, Links to Child Ideas, Local Docs, Idea Associations, External Links, Bibliography, Customs Fields, Keywords, Hierarchical Position

Each of these Elements has an associated Style (format), and you have control over the positioning of the Elements on the Page.

Anyway, just my take on it.

===================

Updated: 2007-04-27

Please see the following thread for further discussion and insights:

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2553