more on export

[janrif]

If user does not store contents in UR as in Launchy create link in UR, how does user export this information to another user. If I were to store all the contents that I link to, I'd have a separate machine for my db (slight exaggeration but not by much). Thank you.

Added later: In ADM, for example, data transfer from source could (by option) include source, date acquired & user note in item details. This was very helpful when grouping various data types for distribution.

[ashwken]

Jan,

Just ran a quick test on exporting Stored and Linked Items in conjunction with export2.zip.

If an Item contains Stored content, then the Stored content is exported to a subfolder underneath the UR Export Folder - this Stored Content can be rtf from the Detail Pane or Doc Type Items.

If an Item contains Linked content, this Linked content is not exported but it is referenced in the resulting html (toc.html). Although this reference shows as an html link, it's a dead link - it would appear that some work needs to be done to modify this link to include the relative path to the linked material.

Exporting Linked content appears to be a problem, especially if your Linked content is spread over a variety of Folders. If your linked content is structured in subfolders under your UR data location, then a solution may be attained but would take some editing of the resulting html (toc.html).

I do hope that Kinook is looking at a more elegant means of outputting from the database.

[kinook]

For a linked web page item exported to HTML via http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=2054, its URL (and other exported attributes) will be included in the exported page.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by kinook
For a linked web page item exported to HTML via http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=2054, its URL (and other exported attributes) will be included in the exported page.

For the following folder structure:

\UR Data\Content_Folder\file-1.doc
\UR Data\Content_Folder\file-2.doc

file-1.doc is Stored Item
file-2.doc is Linked Item

Do a UR Export (to xml) against a branch that contains the above Stored-Linked Items, the path for this export is:

\UR Data\Export_Folder

this export will create this structure:

\UR Data\Export_Folder\export_StoredContent\file-1.doc

Run the Transform vbs from export2.zip and the resulting toc.html will contain a linked reference to each Item (file-1.doc and file-2.doc), but the html link to file-2.doc is dead.

In order to activate the link for file-2.doc I must edit the toc.html and add "../" to the beginning of the referenced path for file-2.doc.

If export2.zip is used to create distributable output (index.html, toc.html, and subfolders for icons and stored content), then it would seem that Linked Content would need to be handled in the same manner as Stored Content.


Later,
KenA

[janrif]

Guys, I'm sorry. This is way over my head & I would imagine it will be above the head of many URp devotees.

LIke I said, this is very frustrating for me, personally, because I made another stupid assumption: if a program like URp is good at takng data in, it will be just as good at getting it out, i.e. sharing it.

At this point I suppose the only *real* way to select all kinds of data & sharing it is to export it to a UR db & send a viewer along with it. A bit cumbersome. I'll have to try that unless someone wants to pipe up & tell me not to waste my time.

Thanks.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by janrif
Guys, I'm sorry. This is way over my head & I would imagine it will be above the head of many URp devotees.

-snip-

At this point I suppose the only *real* way to select all kinds of data & sharing it is to export it to a UR db & send a viewer along with it. A bit cumbersome. I'll have to try that unless someone wants to pipe up & tell me not to waste my time.

Actually, I think that the process available in export2.zip offers a good begining and affords some flexibility when combined with Saved Exports and multiple export folders.

Distributing with the viewer may afford the best presentation, but I haven't worked with it yet. In fact, I was only drawn into the output process by these discussions, I haven't needed this aspect of the program yet.

Later,
KenA

[janrif]

Originally posted by ashwken
Actually, I think that the process available in export2.zip offers a good begining and affords some flexibility when combined with Saved Exports and multiple export folders.

Distributing with the viewer may afford the best presentation, but I haven't worked with it yet. In fact, I was only drawn into the output process by these discussions, I haven't needed this aspect of the program yet. Ken I hope you don't think I was complaining about your help, nor Kyle's either. It's just that I'm one of those guys who's been using computers since before Apple II days but as a user, not a techie, not a programmer, etc. My loss but I never had time.

So -- in this particular case -- I find myself in a situation where there may be an answer for what I need to do but don't have the savy to noodle thru it. I'm just not comfortable enough, don't know enough and, frankly believe, I should have to. Having said that I'm not against trying.

To put this in context I started a non-commercially supported website many years ago -- as an internet exercise -- which has grown into hundreds of pages of information on the Bouvier des Flandres breed of dog. And fortunately or un-fortunately it has become the focus of inquiries from all over the world at the rate of +/- 100,000 hits monthly. On a commercial level that may not be a lot but for a one man band who just does it for the love of the breed, it is a lot.

And people write me directly to ask about this health issue or some training technique etc & I gather information that I have archived on my system to give them a compiltion of articles, emails, links etc on the subject I feel it has become my responsibility to do this.

So I think from this you can see how important distributing information is for me.

Added to that is keeping me on track for the other parts of my life which is why I am so interested in an all-in-one solution.

Anyway, sorry to go on about a personal OT situation but I hope this puts some of my comments, questions, suggestions to this forum into context.

Thank you.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by janrif
Ken I hope you don't think I was complaining about your help, nor Kyle's either.
-snip-
Anyway, sorry to go on about a personal OT situation but I hope this puts some of my comments, questions, suggestions to this forum into context.

Jan, no offence taken - sorry if I sound abrupt, just trying to stick to the facts.

Actually, your off-topic comments were insightful, and I'm even more convinced that the process available in export2.zip will be of benefit to you (if the problem with Linked Content can be resloved).

I have learned a lot from this little exercise, even if I'm not yet at a point in my own work to benefit.

[janrif]

Originally posted by ashwken
[snip] I'm even more convinced that the process available in export2.zip will be of benefit to you (if the problem with Linked Content can be resloved). OK, well in that case I'll try to stay positive about the process & hope it will resolve itself into some form that duffers like me can understand.

BTW, I tried the 'viewer' process & realize that for my use, it's really an imposition on the person I'm sending info to, to ask them to install a new program & to see information in a form they are not used to seeing . So that makes 2 reasons to hope the 'export2' scenario works out.....and soon.

I went back & tried export2, think I followed the directions & the result was a browser window split in 2 - left for TOC, right for data. However, the most clicking on link in left frame did was to open the linked data in word, i.e. externally. The only data displayed in the right were ico graphics.

Is the what you meant by the 'linked content' issue?

[ashwken]

Originally posted by janrif
However, the most clicking on link in left frame did was to open the linked data in word, i.e. externally. The only data displayed in the right were ico graphics.

Is the what you meant by the 'linked content' issue?

Sorry, I don't know how to link to an earlier message in this thread, but in my response to Kinook...

For the html: in the LH-Pane, if the link is for an Item that was Stored content in UR, then the LH-Pane link will show that Stored content in the RH-pane.

For the html: in the LH-Pane, if the link is for an Item that was Linked content in UR, then the LH-Pane link will NOT show that Linked content in the RH-pane.

In order to get this Linked content to show in the RH-Pane I had to modify the toc.html as mentioned in the earlier post.

If you look at the folder that you exported to, you should see two subfolders - one for icons, and one for Stored Content - look in this subfolder for Stored Content and you will see where the material for the RH-Pane is coming from.

It just seems to me that a subfolder for Linked Content needs to be created during the UR Export.

Oh, by the way, my testing was with Word .doc files, and they opened in the RH-Pane without launching Word (running IE7).

[janrif]

Originally posted by ashwken
Sorry, I don't know how to link to an earlier message in this thread, but in my response to Kinook...[snip] I went back to that post & 'understand' what you pointed out with the added '/' character & the added subfolder for linked info. I assume this is a kinook fix.

In my case this also happened w RTF files which I guess is the same problem, i.e. linked materials.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by janrif
I went back to that post & 'understand' what you pointed out with the added '/' character & the added subfolder for linked info. I assume this is a kinook fix.

In my case this also happened w RTF files which I guess is the same problem, i.e. linked materials.

Yes, Kinook needs to look at this before we can persue further discussion.

[kinook]

Originally posted by ashwken
For the following folder structure:

\UR Data\Content_Folder\file-1.doc
\UR Data\Content_Folder\file-2.doc

file-1.doc is Stored Item
file-2.doc is Linked Item

Do a UR Export (to xml) against a branch that contains the above Stored-Linked Items, the path for this export is:

\UR Data\Export_Folder

this export will create this structure:

\UR Data\Export_Folder\export_StoredContent\file-1.doc

Run the Transform vbs from export2.zip and the resulting toc.html will contain a linked reference to each Item (file-1.doc and file-2.doc), but the html link to file-2.doc is dead.

In order to activate the link for file-2.doc I must edit the toc.html and add "../" to the beginning of the referenced path for file-2.doc.

If export2.zip is used to create distributable output (index.html, toc.html, and subfolders for icons and stored content), then it would seem that Linked Content would need to be handled in the same manner as Stored Content.
As long as the exported XML file is created in the same path as the .urd file, the URL for a linked document item with a relative path will be valid in the exported XML/HTML.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by kinook
As long as the exported XML file is created in the same path as the .urd file, the URL for a linked document item with a relative path will be valid in the exported XML/HTML.

OK, sorry that didn't dawn on me - so the exported xml file would need to be created in the same folder as the UR data file.

Uhmmm...

OK, relative pathes are maintained for Linked Content stored below the UR data folder - how are the pathes handled for Linked Content that resides outside the UR data path?

I haven't run tests on this, what should I expect?

[kinook]

Documents imported (linked) outside of the UR path will be stored with the full drive+path+filename in the URL, which will also be exported to the XML/HTML file.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by kinook
Documents imported (linked) outside of the UR path will be stored with the full drive+path+filename in the URL, which will also be exported to the XML/HTML file.

OK, so if your Linked Content resides outside the UR data path, then the resulting xml/html is going to have an absolute path to this content.

Isn't this going to create a problem if you are using export2.zip to create distributable html?

[kinook]

Yes, unless the user extracts all the linked files to identical paths.

[ashwken]

OK, is it possible for the UR Export to xml to do this?

The UR Export to xml is already doing this with Stored Content - creating a subfolder (export_StoredContent) where this content is placed and writing the xml to contain relative references to this location for this material.

Otherwise, the user needs to have the foresight to build a subfolder structure for Linked Content below the UR data Folder prior to using the UR Export to xml and export2.zip. This will work for individual files, but how is linked email from Outlook handled?

Is export2.zip a stop-gap measure, do you have something in the works to reslove this?

I'm just trying to understand how to work within the program.

[kinook]

Export was really only intended for exporting data stored within the .urd file. There are lots of external items that UR can link to, and to generically "export" any of these external sources to somewhere else would not be trivial.

[janrif]

Originally posted by kinook
Export was really only intended for exporting data stored within the .urd file. There are lots of external items that UR can link to, and to generically "export" any of these external sources to somewhere else would not be trivial. Fair enough. But the purpose of most of my data gathering is for later searching by subject & distributing to others. That information could be a combination of many forms so I have to gather it in such a way as to make it accessible for distribution via HTML or RTF.

Maybe the problem is my understanding of how URp really works. So let's see:

1. I can copy & paste from any source. That data is stored in UR
2. I can open in URp (Link) but the data stays where it is but will be viewed in URp
3. I can open in URp (copy) & the data is transferred into URp
4. I can D/D to explorer, results in #2
5. I can import, i.e. link & view data inside URp browser like #2 & 4
6. I can D/D onto item text to create a link.

-----
I assume that #1 & #3 & #6 is easily ported to html via export.
I assume #3 (DOC & MSG & PDF files) is what export2 is all about
I assume #4 is not possible to export unless it is also in the #6 form, i.e. URL appears in item text.

If I have this right & the export2 situation 'improves' then I would be able to gather all types of data in a search & export2 it to an html file.

The only thing missing piece would be #4 and that could be taken care of by providing user w an option to copy URL directly to item text as well as explorer or give user the option of renaming explorer item & transferring URL & date and a user note to item text. I have found this latter option to be the most useful.

Do I have this about right? If not, where am I going wrong?

And when might there be a more elegant solution to this expport2 thing?

Thank you.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by kinook
Export was really only intended for exporting data stored within the .urd file. There are lots of external items that UR can link to, and to generically "export" any of these external sources to somewhere else would not be trivial.

OK, I can accept that - I guess linked Outlook items and linked executables (??? I'm trying to think of what all UR can link to besides just data files) are some of these external sources.

But on the other hand, you are some really smart guys and hopefully you're working on something that we can use.

Later,
KenA

[ashwken]

Jan,

It would seem that the best course would be to create a subfolder structure below the UR data folder for Linked Content. Not sure how best to organize this structure to meet your needs, maybe a topical structure, or a structure that mimics your folder structure within UR.

In your earlier post you mentioned that you link to a lot of email in Outlook, you may want to consider storing this email instead.

What we've learned is that you need to export to the UR data folder. The UR data folder will also need to contain the files from export2.zip. Linked Content will need to reside in a subfolder structure below your UR data folder.

Later,
KenA

[janrif]

Originally posted by ashwken
What we've learned is that you need to export to the UR data folder. The UR data folder will also need to contain the files from export2.zip. Linked Content will need to reside in a subfolder structure below your UR data folder. Ken, I thought I followed instructions.

Attached is a zipped bmp to demo my directory structure.

The result of this is that all rtf or doc files are only available outside the browser, i.e. open/save.

The TOC has links but doesn't display those file types in the right frame. Only stored txt type files are displayed in the RF.

You're a patient person.

[ashwken]

Originally posted by janrif

The result of this is that all rtf or doc files are only available outside the browser, i.e. open/save.

The TOC has links but doesn't display those file types in the right frame. Only stored txt type files are displayed in the RF.

This may be a browser issue, what browser are you using?

From your browser can you File | Open .rtf or Word .doc files, how do they display?

[janrif]

Originally posted by ashwken
This may be a browser issue, what browser are you using?

From your browser can you File | Open .rtf or Word .doc files, how do they display?
browser=IE6 or URp default browser
rtf, txt, pdf files open in UR browser
doc files only open externally

In directions offered by Kinook, it refers to file types | advanced | option open in same window is checked. I cannot do this on my system as it is greyed out. That may be the problem but I don't know how to fix it. See attached zip

I suppose I could re-install Word, a real PITA but -- of course -- I'm willing if that's the solution.

Edited abut an hour later: I removed ;.doc from Tools | Options | Browser | file extensions to display inside browser & now I see unformatted text. <CTRL>+J opens "Word" for external editing. Go figure.

I wonder if this is connected to the greyed out open in same window option if file types

[ashwken]

Jan,

Sorry I couldn't respond sooner.

On a machine that is running UR v.3.04, IE6, and MS Office 2000 SP-3, from the UR generated html both .rtf and Word .doc files are being shown in the RH-Pane.

The .rtf is generated from UR Items that have text content in the Detail Pane. This .rtf is showing in the RH-Pane of the html, but I suspect that IE is working in conjunction with Word to display this content since the RH-Pane display is showing a Word ruler at the top, a Word scroll bar to the RH-side, and a Word bar at the bottom.

The same is true when displaying a Word.doc file.

I don't know how to explain why this happening, or why it wouldn't happen. Also, I have no idea what would be displayed if this material were to be posted to the web, then viewed by a user who did not have Word (or a Word viewer ???) installed.

Later,
KenA

[janrif]

Originally posted by ashwken
On a machine that is running UR v.3.04, IE6, and MS Office 2000 SP-3, from the UR generated html both .rtf and Word .doc files are being shown in the RH-Pane. [snip]I don't know how to explain why this happening, or why it wouldn't happen. Also, I have no idea what would be displayed if this material were to be posted to the web, then viewed by a user who did not have Word (or a Word viewer ???) installed. Ken, 2 things of note. I am on a w2k-sp4 machine & I don't have outlook; rather I have a Word (2002) standalone. I believe this may have been before there was such tight integration between the MS products.

If you are seeing the actual 'word' screen within URp then I can categorically say I have never seen that. The best I've been able to accomplish is seeing non-formatted '.doc ' documents in URp while the '.rtf' documents are formatted so it looks like wherever the 'Word' viewer comes from (Outlook?) is missing on my system.

This may also be connected to that advanced option that I can't seem to access.

As for the html export....well, that remains a mystery. In any case, thanks for all your time & help.

[ashwken]

Jan,

My response was referring to the display of .rtf and .doc in the UR generated html (resuting from export2.zip).

Although I think that the export2.zip may be useful for generating distrbutable html, there are a number of limitations to this process, due to wide range of files that can be Linked into UR, that may not make this process viable for all users.

Later,
KenA