Odd Search Behavior-Date Completed

[armsys]

In the Search pane, using Advance >>, if "Date Completed" is used as a search criteria, only Task items can be shown.
Other Info Items such as Appointments can be attached with Date Complete attribute, but will never be shown up in the above scenario even the Date Complete condition is met.

Armstrong

[kinook]

That works ok here (see attached sample and screen shot).

[armsys]

Kinook,
Thanks for your help. Searching with Date Completed criteria, your sample shows 3 different types of Info Items, namely, Task, Appointment, Note/Text.
My test with Date Completed Greater than or equal to "10/1/2008" (Oct 1, 2008), indeed the result shows various types of Info Items.
Obviously my original post in respect of the odd behavior of Date Completed search criteria is wrong.
Obviously I didn't know how to set/manipulate the Date Completed criteria properly.

Objective: List all Info Items which meet the following conditions:
1. have reminder >= 0 minutes
2. Incomplete
3. Begin Date >= 2 weeks ago
4. Begin End <= 3 weeks later
In essence, I want to search all Incomplete Info Items.
See the attachment.
I'm unable to set it right.
Please help. Thanks.
Armstrong

[armsys]

Alternative questions:
How to search Info Items meeting the following conditions:
"Date Completed" is empty AND "Begin Date" is not empty.

With reference to GTD's Someday/Maybe Items, some Appointments/Tasks won't be assigned with any Begin Date and End Date.

[kinook]

That looks right. See searches in attached sample.

[armsys]

Kinook,
Thanks for taking time to produce a sample URD.
At first glance, your and my Search Criteria are the same.
After numerous tests, I discover a nuance. That's, my original post was not completely wrong.

For all default non-Task templates/items, "Date Completed" is not included. Because it never exists, the Search result will never include Info Items other than Task items.

On the other hand, in your Test.urd, both "abc"Appointment and "123" note are manually appended with the "Date Completed" attribute. That explains why your Search criteria can successfully list all Info Items, but mime lists only Task items.

Kinook, please correct me if my observation is inaccurate. Thanks.

[kinook]

Add an 'or Date Completed not exists' clause to the search (see attached).

[armsys]

Kinook,
Thanks for your help.
Just one more question.
Referring to the following logical expression:
((Reminder >= 0 minutes AND Begin Date <= 2/6/2009 AND Begin Date>=12/19/2008) and (Date Completed = "")) OR (Date Completed NOT Exists)


Question:
If the Date Completed attribute doesn't exist (eg, Appointments), what would be the result of (Date Completed = "")?

Thanks.
Armstrong

[armsys]

Kinook,
I have trouble to follow your logic.
First of all, yes, your logic succeed to list all incomplete Info Items.

Since Or expression is located at the bottom, for all for default non-Task items it'll be evaluated as TRUE, even though all criteria/expressions above fail. That's, all non-Task item will be listed even though they don't meeting the Begin Date range. In actually, your Search criteria work fine. But why? Can you explain the magic? Thank you.
Armstrong

[armsys]

I'm further confused by the indenting Search criteria.
The criterion shown screenshot will list nothing.
If the second row is indented, the Search Result will list all Info Items. What is the difference? They basically the same logical expressions and operator (OR). The only difference is the indentation. Please help. Thanks.
Armstrong

[armsys]

I'm further perplexed by the arcane wording in the manual.
Referring to http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/Manual/?gettingstarted.htm, it says, "The Relationship for the first Criteria Row in an indent level determines how the expression represented by that indent level is related to the rest of the search criteria."
What does it mean in English? Please help. Thanks.

Armstrong

[armsys]

The only possibility for your Search criteria grid to succeed is to be interpreted as the following logical expression:

(Reminder >= 0 minutes AND Begin Date <= 2/6/2009 AND Begin Date>=12/19/2008) AND (Date Completed = "" OR Date Completed NOT Exists)

By merely looking up the Search criteria grid in your test.urd, it seems to present the following logical expression:

((Reminder >= 0 minutes AND Begin Date <= 2/6/2009 AND Begin Date>=12/19/2008) AND Date ) OR (Completed = "" OR Date Completed NOT Exists)

What went wrong with my interpretation? Please help. Thanks.

Armstrong

[kinook]

Question:
If the Date Completed attribute doesn't exist (eg, Appointments), what would be the result of (Date Completed = "")?
Date Completed equals <null> only matches items containing a Date Completed attribute whose value is null (unchecked).

[kinook]

Originally posted by armsys
I'm further confused by the indenting Search criteria.
The criterion shown screenshot will list nothing.
If the second row is indented, the Search Result will list all Info Items. What is the difference? They basically the same logical expressions and operator (OR). The only difference is the indentation. Please help. Thanks.
Armstrong It seems that an extra indent is needed for the 'or' to function properly. Not sure why, but it is on our list to investigate.

[kinook]

Originally posted by armsys
it says, "The Relationship for the first Criteria Row in an indent level determines how the expression represented by that indent level is related to the rest of the search criteria."
What does it mean in English? Please help. Thanks.That an indent acts like an opening parenthesis.

[armsys]

Originally posted by kinook
Date Completed equals <null> only matches items containing a Date Completed attribute whose value is null (unchecked).
My question is related to non-Task items. With your test.urd, setting one row of Searh criterion: Date Completed = NULL, only task items will be shown.

[kinook]

In my tests, that matches all items with a null Date Completed attribute (xyz task, the Task template, and abc appointment item in the sample).

[armsys]

Originally posted by kinook
In my tests, that matches all items with a null Date Completed attribute (xyz task, the Task template, and abc appointment item in the sample).
That was explained in my previous post in this thread. That's because the "abc" Appointment item contains "Date Completed" attribute under the Task category. if the "Date Completed" attribute is deleted from the Item Attributes pane, the "abc"Appointment item won't be shown under the "Date Completed" Search Item.

Therefore, it proves the existance of the "Date Completed" attribute does affect the search result.

Armstrong

[armsys]

Originally posted by kinook
That an indent acts like an opening parenthesis.
I'm sorry. I'm not enthusiastically contented with the simplified version given the facts:
1. as it now becomes obvious that OR (logical operator) actually requires an additional indent in order to work.
2. the manual statement obviously describes the relationship between the criterion row and the "rest" of the search criteria. It just stops there. It doesn't explain further. It doesn't illustrate with screenshot and/or samples.

"The Relationship for the first Criteria Row in an indent level determines how the expression represented by that indent level is related to the rest of the search criteria."

Kinook, would you be very kind enough to demystify the otherwise powerful GUI search tool?

Thank you.

Armstrong

[armsys]

Originally posted by armsys
The only possibility for your Search criteria grid to succeed is to be interpreted as the following logical expression:

(Reminder >= 0 minutes AND Begin Date <= 2/6/2009 AND Begin Date>=12/19/2008) AND (Date Completed = "" OR Date Completed NOT Exists)

By merely looking up the Search criteria grid in your test.urd, it seems to present the following logical expression:

((Reminder >= 0 minutes AND Begin Date <= 2/6/2009 AND Begin Date>=12/19/2008) AND (Date Completed = "")) OR (Date Completed NOT Exists)

What went wrong with my interpretation? Please help. Thanks.

Armstrong
Kinook,
Would you please rule which interpretation is correct with reference to the "Incomplete Items" search item?
The test.zip shows:
1. "Incomplete Item" search criteria which is referred in the above question;
2. "Date Completed" search item obviously misses the "abc" Appointment item.

Please help. Thanks.

Armstrong

[kinook]

An extra indent of the 'or' row is currently needed to produce the desired expression.

[kinook]

This has been fixed in the latest download.
http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=3902