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Old 12-01-2012, 04:24 PM
schferk schferk is online now
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Join Date: 11-02-2010
Posts: 151

So, UR isn't a "db", UR is a very sophisticated IMS, using a db as its data repository. But as said in I, there is a prob: For thinking, for deciding, for organizing, i.e. in the sense of finding solutions to little and big probs, ANY outline-only sw is substandard vāv mm sw, and on the other hand, mm software doesn't even handle inter-file clones, let alone that no existing mm sw seems to be able to work as a viable front-end to a big-data repository (sideline : In the web, you can find testimonials from TB users who say, even monster maps with TB work rather ok, but whenever you try to make extensive use of TB's (substandard anyhow) note fields, see what your db quickly becomes...).

So we have two situations here which gets us the third (and the fourth) one:

- Even if they get better and better (which is not the case at this moment), UR-like IMS's will never provide a real thinking-enhancement, except by integration of an mm component for displaying real subbranches of your tree, or even virtual subbranches of your tree, i.e. any clone (with his children, etc.) within an mm-displayed subtree must be treated, in the mm display, as if all these items were there, at their native position. Also, it must be possible to WORK upon that graphical representation, and any changes you'll make there, should be re-updated down to the tree device - I suppose that this is high-brow programming, but technically, there is no impossibility -

except for the fact that the mm component that allows for complete both-ways synching, will probably have to constructed first; I very much doubt there might be such a component out there at this time: Just compare MM and VM: In MM, there are shortcuts for "move up/down" (= within the siblings, and I use these commands about 60 times an hour!), and many more, whilst in VM, for moving an item, I'll have to use the mouse (and not speaking of the constant crashes here) - so, it's hardly believable that there might be any really sophisticated mm component anywhere, and if it only allows for the most basic functionality, and without reasonable hope to get ever much more than that, it would impair your inspiration, instead of making it proliferate.

- On the other hand, today, even with add-ons, MM is only so-so, whilst its competitors even don't get such add-ons, and even with interfile clones introduced someday somewhere, there is no real hope that any of these mm progs will ever provide stable "material" M for big-data.

- Hence my original idea, one year ago, to trigger interaction between an elaborate outline-style IMS, and a not-too-primitive (and possibly actively-developed, which is not really the case with VM, but of MM and perhaps others) mm sw, where both developers would make available as much of their respective functionality, to the other, whenever possible and sensible interaction is concerned.

- And since the petty jealousies of both IMS and mm developers seem to prevent such collaboration (in spite of the fact that it would be enormously beneficial for both developers, since it would, for the first, overcome the limitations of IMS's AND of mm sw - not speaking of the benefits for the user), my current musings how much interaction could be implemented into an interactive mm-IMS workflow by macro / scripting, and for a beginning, I muse about the possibilities within MM, whilst bearing in mind that in the end, perhaps some of the interaction MM basic-maps with MM aggregating-maps could / should be transferred to the interaction MM with IMS/UR.

But then, you absolutely NEED those basic, "work" maps in an mm sw, but you perhaps don't absolutely need those aggregation maps within the mm part of your workflow: Why not have your material within UR, then the possibility to export to a map - but then, with currently available means, the re-import into UR will be impossible! -, and then, the aggregation back in UR (on a higher level there)?

As said, this latter realization isn't possible with current UR, with current MM, hence my musing about doing (perhaps MUCH) more things within MM than I had initially planned... But then, deep links to the respective UR subtrees at least.


If you want to generate better, more, even very easy-coming, ideas, you use any mm sw (but as stated above, amply shortkey-endowed sw makes much quicker and much more intuitive working than sw that forces you to over-use your mouse), and since manual synching with your data repository would be too error-prone, even if you can afford to employ an additional secretary for that, you must devise some interoperability between the two.

It could never be slick, with just external macros, but it could make better available, in some way, your data repository to your thinking and planning, as if you had two separate systems running apart.

So you see, it's all about the original topic, not about UR VERSUS mm (or UR vs. MM with RM). In my case, 100,000 items providing "content" would make this impossible to begin with. My theme is the optimized interaction of DATA with thinking, and unfortunately, there is nothing out there that even tries the very first steps of such interaction (except, indeed for that CT I abhor) - the reality is, it's even the opposite, and for which the non-integration of DecisionMill and RM, in order to sell them as two separate products, isn't but one of countless examples.

In a perfect world, it'd be kinook that mused about such things, and then telephoned to some mm sw developers. As for me, I cannot buy any such mm sw (I mean the rights, not a licence), just in order to then integrate an IMS into it, but that would be indeed what any mm sw developer should do in order to catch up with MM: Why not imagine an mm sw developer buying the IMS competence, instead of the other way round?

Anyway, I have to do with what is available for me, today, hence my musing about possible macros within MM at least, and then deep links to UR items or a competitor (no way with AO here, but then, a UR that isn't actively developed, hasn't got that much of attraction for me JUST for its deep links...).

One last word: I'm always speaking about 2-screen scenarii here; switching back and forth between UR and MM on the same screen isn't the thing to do - btw, that's the reason why all these pretty tries to introduce mm maps as navigational devices in web pages have been aborted: Either you got space for the navigation, or for the content, but not both. But we're power users here, hence my advice, buy a second screen (used, 30 bucks), and you'll never ever will do without such a set-up except on the road.
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