Gmail

[xja]

Does anyone use Gmail and UR, ie, using UR to link/store Gmail messages or conversations in the UR hierachy? If so, any suggestions as to how to make that work well?

What I would really like to do is to be able to link an entire Gmail conversation to a UR item. Then selecting that conversation would show the Gmail page with that conversation including all new emails received in that conversation. In essence, I want to link to an email conversation that is dynamically updated as messages arrive into that conversation.

I have tried to do this a couple of ways. If you navigate to a Gmail conversation in the UR browser, you can then drag the URL from the web address bar onto an info item to create a Document info item that is a link to that conversation. That does work except when you then select that Document info item, while the conversation is displayed properly, it is missing some buttons (eg, Archive, Delete, More Actions drop down) and most of the Javascript doesn't work on the page (you can't reply, can't expand previous message in thread). So it is ok for static viewing but you can't reply, archive, delete, expand, etc.

I have also tried using the Gmail basic HTML interface (ie, without Javascript). I can create a Document info item with a URL that links to the Gmail conversation in basic HTML view, but when a new message in that conversation is received, then that link will no longer bring up that conversation, which defeats the purpose.

[kevina]

If inoperative script is the main issue you are encountering, you can ensure that script is downloaded (this option is unchecked by default). This option is configurable at Tools | Options | Import (More) <tab>| Download scripts. Depending on the actual script code, this may resolve that particular issue.

[xja]

Thanks. I did not have that checked although even without it checked some of the scripts worked, most didn't. I turned on "Download scripts" and interestingly, it didn't change anything.

Unfortunately, unless I am missing something, there doesn't appear to be a Gmail URL that will take you to their "standard" full conversation view, with all the scripting working and all buttons showing. And the URL that takes you to the basic HTML conversation view becomes invalid when a new message is added to the conversation.

There is one peculiarity in using Gmail within UR in that if I view the standard view of a Gmail conversation in UR, click in the Reply box and try to type in the message body field (in Rich Text mode), no text appears when I type. If I switch to Plain Text mode, I can enter text in the message body. It works ok in Rich Text mode if I open the same page in an external browser.

[kevina]

My prior suggestion about using the Download Scripts option is not applicable since you are not storing but only linking to the GMail url. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused...

My testing indicates the same behaviour that you mention: everything works except that entry of "Reply" text does not work within Ultra Recall. At this point we have not identified why this occurs, the best option I can currently recommend is to use Open Document (Ctrl+J) to launch the url externally for "Reply" editing.

[xja]

If you link to a standard (ie, javascript-enabled) Gmail conversation page as I described above, most of the javascript does not work, so you can't reply (even if you use plain text) because the send button doesn't work, you can't expand, etc, etc.

However, if on that page you click on New Window, it will open up an external browser window with a slimmed down version of the conversation view, and if you copy that URL into UR and then view in UR, all the javascript DOES work. It is still missing the ability to archive and delete the conversation and you can't reply with Rich Text, as described above, but it is cool to be able to have a dynamically updating email conversation linked into UR.

It would be nice if you didn't have to do that extra step (ie, opening the new window) but that seems to be a function of Gmail quirkiness, not UR. Unless there is a way to force new browser windows to be opened within UR?

Another negative is that email text is not indexed since it is dynamically retrieved via javascript I guess.

[xja]

Originally posted by kevina
My testing indicates the same behaviour that you mention: everything works except that entry of "Reply" text does not work within Ultra Recall. At this point we have not identified why this occurs, the best option I can currently recommend is to use Open Document (Ctrl+J) to launch the url externally for "Reply" editing.

Have you looked at this any further? Would still like to be able to use Gmail (and by that I mean Reply) from within UR.

[kevina]

I was able to use the basic features of GMail inside of Ultra Recall (not being an "advanced" GMail user), and was able to compose messages, reply to messages, etc within Ultra Recall. The one exception was that "Rich Formatting" of an email body didn't work (the plain text option worked just fine), and I am not entirely sure why at this point. The "focus" wouldn't stay in the rich text editor entry field of Gmail...

Are there are other Gmail features that are still unavailable to you when used inside of Ultra Recall? Please test it in your environment - we can take a look at a specific issues that you find.

[xja]

The Reply using Rich Text is really the only significant problem.

Sometimes the Back key doesn't work like it does when using Gmail in IE but you don't have to use the Back key to navigate within Gmail, so not a big deal.

Also, is there any way to force a link that opens a new window to open up as a new tab within UR? One feature in Gmail that is very useful as a UR user is to click "New Window" in a conversation to get a page with a "permanent" URL that I can then copy and paste into UR. Right now, clicking "New Window" opens it up in an external browser. Would love it if that opened up in a new tab in UR instead.

[kinook]

Normally Ctrl+click or Ctrl+Enter on a link in the internal browser will open in a new tab, but the embedded component instance of IE used by UR does not receive any events about New Window getting clicked. It doesn't appear to be a normal hyperlink (and GMail seems to disable viewing source within IE so it's not clear exactly what it is).

[bkonia]

Originally posted by kevina
I was able to use the basic features of GMail inside of Ultra Recall (not being an "advanced" GMail user), and was able to compose messages, reply to messages, etc within Ultra Recall. The one exception was that "Rich Formatting" of an email body didn't work (the plain text option worked just fine), and I am not entirely sure why at this point. The "focus" wouldn't stay in the rich text editor entry field of Gmail...

Yes, this problem is really annoying. I would like to be able to use GMail from within UR, but every time I reply to a message, I have to manually switch to plain text view. What a pain!

Would really appreciate if you would look into this further to see if it can be resolved.

[cnewtonne]

I use gmail for my 4 email accounts with UR via Thunderbird. UR supports it via a toolbar button.

[bkonia]

Originally posted by cnewtonne
I use gmail for my 4 email accounts with UR via Thunderbird. UR supports it via a toolbar button.

Thunderbird supports GMail via POP, which is very different from accessing GMail via the web interface. POP may be fine for some users, but since it doesn't support synchronization between local folders and online folders, it's not suitable for my purposes. Appreciate the suggestion, though!

Ultimately, UR's GMail problems are just an example of a larger problem which is that UR's internal browser has issues with Javascript on many sites. I'm sure Kinook would say that this is due to Microsoft's web browser control, yet there are dozens of third party IE-based browsers on the market that have managed to work around these issues.

[StephenUK]

This thread about GMail is very interesting.

It seems to me that the success of GMail points to a major dilemma for computer users. I use and love GMail. But it has taken me one step away from having all my data in one place. Intead, I still find that I need several databases to achieve what I want, in particular, I use:

- UR for nearly all types of important data that I wish to organise and keep long term, and importantly, favorites as well.

- InfoSelect for quick scratchings which I don't have time to organise too well, just because it works that bit faster than UR.

- Unfortunately, Windows Explorer for the majority of my photographs (because UR does not really support thumbnails)

- ListPro for my ToDo lists (UR for me isn't good on simple ToDo lists in spread-sheet type format)

- Personal Information Keeper from High Criteria for phrases and passwords

- And now I also have considerable data in GMail. (Maybe I should periodically import all my GMail data, but it seems like hard work).

The holy grail for me is to have all my data in one place.

Anything Kinook can do to make any of these other information sources redundant would therefore be most welcome, and GMail for me is the most important alternative information source and therefore the one I would most like to see fully integrated into UR.

I have a vision that in another ten years time all my data really will be in one place, but in truth I doubt it!

[quant]

Originally posted by StephenUK
This thread about GMail is very interesting.
- UR for nearly all types of important data that I wish to organise and keep long term, and importantly, favorites as well.

- InfoSelect for quick scratchings which I don't have time to organise too well, just because it works that bit faster than UR.

- Unfortunately, Windows Explorer for the majority of my photographs (because UR does not really support thumbnails)

- ListPro for my ToDo lists (UR for me isn't good on simple ToDo lists in spread-sheet type format)

- Personal Information Keeper from High Criteria for phrases and passwords

- And now I also have considerable data in GMail. (Maybe I should periodically import all my GMail data, but it seems like hard work).

I have a vision that in another ten years time all my data really will be in one place, but in truth I doubt it!

I agree with you on gmail, and photos ... but for the rest, nope

if you even slithtly want to have all your data in one place ... UR has no problems with

- quick scratching
- ToDO
- phrases and passwords

I really don't find your arguments strong enough to not use UR ;-)
maybe if you elaborate a little bit more why in each of those cases UR is considerable less efficient comparing to another products you mention

You have to look at it globally and put all the variables in equation. Maybe you save few seconds when doing inserts, but you loose much more when you try to get some outputs. For me, that fact that I have all those things in one place greatly overweights the little advantage I'd gain in using more specialized soft. The fact that I can search and crosslink in one place is a huge gain

[StephenUK]

Quant

I agree with you that it is GMail and images that matter most.

The other things matter far less.

I use InfoSelect for scratchings probably more out of familiarity. For example, if I paste a note into InfoSelect, the first line of the note automatically forms the default title in the left hand pane, whereas I have to type in a title in UR which is a considerable overhead when pasting large numbers of notes. But apart from that, there is no compelling reason to use InfoSelect, and by degrees I will move data out into UR.

ListPro for ToDo lists. I have titles of lists in the left pane, and the lists, one liners Excel style, with priority, dates, etc, on the right. ListPro does that job very well. But in fact, popping it up over UR is not much of an issue and perhaps ToDo lists are the one form of data I am happy to keep separate from UR.

Personal Information Keeper from High Criteria is an excellent little utility for inputting passwords and phrases. Its strength is that words can be dragged to a field anywhere, so for things like online banking, or inserting complicated foreign words or phrases, it is excellent. In a sense, it is not really a database at all, so perhaps mentioning it is a red herring. But I suppose that if UR had a little extra window utility that could do what this software does, it would be a nice piece of candy.

So yes, it is Gmail and the images that really matter and I agree completely with you on that.

Continued at http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...?threadid=3013