Is it possible to do proper outlining?

[Nobodo]

I often do outlining in notes, similar to this:
(note - periods added so the forum displays like an outline - actual outline would not have the periods).
1. Test
2. More test
......a. Subitem
......b. Another subitem
.............i. Deeper
3. And back.
4. Another high level
......a. And this has a subitem


Typically when I need to do outlining, I open the document in word, add the outline, then store back to UR. I would really rather not have to open it in word, but I don't see any way that UR supports proper outlining.
Even after adding the outline in Word, I will often forget and add more items in UR. Bam, there goes the outlining.

UR does support this:
1. Test
2. More test
......3. Subitem
......4. Another subitem
............5. Deeper
6. And back.
7. Another high level
......8. And this has a subitem

But of course that is not what is desired.

Is there a way to get this in UR that I am just missing?

Thanks,
Mark.

[kinook]

That sort of outlining within the UR rich text editor is not supported.

[Nobodo]

Is it a possibility for a future release?

[schferk]

You must see that on every occasion, somebody beggs for a new editor within UR, or a way to include an external editor within UR, for any which reason, and there are many good ones of them, he's rebuked. It's simply the fact that a good external editor component would cost Kinook about 800 or 1,000 bucks one-time payment, whilst the very old MS editor that comes with UR is free. Thus, I recommend to start a thread "I'm willing to give xyz dollars for Kinook being able to order a new & really good editor, please join in", instead of multiplying the threads in which the multiple faults and innumerable missing functions of the gratis editor are displayed. Just my 2 cents.

P.S.: I've had many problems with the "search" function not finding anything, too, so I decided to better organize my stuff, in order to avoid searching altogether. It's a pity self-contained IM systems cannot get rid of bugs affecting their everyday usefulness. Before doing a search over multiple databases, the search within a single database should function well, it's a minimum, no? Just my 2 cents.

MyInfo, a less elegant but not bad contender, had a function which allowed, by option, for displaying of the three first lines of editor's text for every hit, within a sort of a "hit table": VERY smart since you could standardize some recurrent info within these first three lines, and then decide upon a variety of key info just by looking at the hit table.

They withdrew that function, pretending they would reintroduce it later. Well, that's been more than a year now, and no reintroduction of that fine feature in sight. So, if any businessman did his customer db in MI 5, relying on this feature, then updated his database to MI 6, then saw the feature was gone, then tried to reconvert his db back to 5.0: oops, file format changed...

Even "better", expensive InfoSelect cut off most vital functions, pretending they were accessory... and presumably to hinder people to change horses, for some of them.

askSam dumped their forum altogether, promised an "8 beta"... which is unavailable.

There is a degree of unprofessionality within the development (and un- and non-development) of individual IM sw that makes it very difficult to rely upon these for any business use: individual users ain't nothing more than beggars, and most of the time, our tended hats remain empty.

This being said, people not ready to create their own integrated system out of an outliner and additional sw, are bound to stick to what they have, and then, most are professionals, having good incomes, being able to spend 1,000 bucks on a really good IM system, instead of laying out 19,95 bucks at bitsdujour...

Perhaps it's time some of the offerings got REAL, asking for 1,000 bucks, but DELIVERING.

The current situation, whining for YEARS over bugs that never get really done with, and over missing functions that'll NEVER come, and it's similar anywhere, UR being one of the more serious offerings by immediate comparison, is cabaret.

Have a look at the outliner forum: There, motherless outliner users, many of them coming from UR, are fervently discussing a wiki tool, wikis being for textual presentation, not creation notwithstanding, but they don't even see that basic, so desperate are they. And every one of them could pay 1,000 bucks for REAL sw.

Cabaret, I say. Just my 2 cents.

[Nobodo]

Originally Posted by schferk

Thus, I recommend to start a thread "I'm willing to give xyz dollars for Kinook being able to order a new & really good editor, please join in", instead of multiplying the threads in which the multiple faults and innumerable missing functions of the gratis editor are displayed. Just my 2 cents.

So in other words in your opinion nobody should ever ask for updated features in UR, but just live with it as it is unless they are willing to take up a contribution for updates. That is more than a little bit absurd; did you get the software for free? I seem to remember paying for it.

If Kinook comes up with a new version of the software that has a new editor (to stay competitive with other similar products) and also resolves a number of other feature and bug requests, I would gladly pay an upgrade fee as I am sure many others would. But to tell people they need to start a donation thread anytime they ask for a new feature in the software, you are really doing nothing more than trolling, scherk.

[schferk]

Don't panic, I wasn't asking for CURRENT UR's price increase to 1,200 dollars!

Sorry for not having made it clear by the usual means, \irony off or something, that I switched from irony to serious argumentation within the original article.

Problem of this market is, there isn't enough money in all this, so developers do their work very badly (many examples elsewhere), or, in the case of UR, as a second task, as a pastime, whilst doing serious work with their main offering, and so, individual people longing for using real good IM sw, must live with sub-optimal solutions forever.

Hence my idea that there MIGHT be room for a developer who says, it'll be 1,000 bucks now, but I'll do it really good, no more endless longing for even basic functionality.

I myself was begging for a better editor within UR here, then realized kinook doesn't want to spend the (tiny) money of such a component, and at the end of the day, it's not the editor alone, it's also the db.

Compare with MyInfo (which has other faults UR doesn't have, no misunderstandig here): There, you can edit an item, then go to another item, go to a third one, back to any of the beforementioned: It's good FLOW of work, not hindered by response times of your system.

Perhaps with your comps, even UR works smoothly then, but on my (not top-notch) systems, UR makes me wait for some seconds between these above-mentioned switchings, and THAT was, in the end, the real reason I finally left: For text processing, moving bits of texts, or copying them, or doing some minor editing here, adding a word there, it's simply not the right program because of those response times, for me, whilst MyInfo does it without problems - replacing the gratis editor by a paid one, in UR, would NOT resolve the problem that for writers (of any kind of output and) with "old" comps, UR is not the right sw.

I think many of these marketing probs of outliners are caused by the fact that most corps (where the money is, and where probs are resolved by spending the money it takes) go to collaboration sw anyway, whilst those many, many tiny mom-and-pop entities, 1-man, 1-man-with-part-time-secretary, 3-people, whatever in this range, do with what they get, and didn't see yet that for the value of a weekend-trip, they'd get "incredibly better", potentially.

Hence, the near-impossibility for "small" developers to address that sleeping market, but as soon as one developing corp decided to do some serious offering, and put some marketing money into, and put small collaboration functionality within it, incl. interaction with MS Outlook and so on, just for 1 to 5 users, with 1 user paying 1 grand, up to 5 paying 2 grand and a half, it would be a total success - always given that there would be real enhancement of the work flow of such 1-5 head entities, incl. IM, good text editing features, some CRM, and so on.

Whilst today, they are file managers out there that are more expensive than e.g. UR Prof. is (which, for the innumerable quirks in UR is quite ok, actually).

Let's face it, a lawyer takes 250 bucks the hour, many take more - why should he be entitled to work with an integrated sw system that he values at 20 minutes of his time? And indeed, he doesn't find any such a system, except for more or less mediocre offerings, UR being one of the best of these.

Even if it's a cheap lawyer, "only" charging 150 bucks the hour, why shouldn't he work ONE WHOLE DAY for paying his near-perfect IM system that he gets perfectly all his work done 365 days in a year?

Even for a writer my calculation would be right: Many of them are (well) paid from some university or do have got a main job for their living, so why not pay 1 grand upfront = 3 bucks a day, for the first year, and then 500 bucks a year, or any second year, for top-notch updating?

"Outlining peple", i.e. 1- to several-heads entities needing / working with IM systems, do want to pay less for that system than they pay for their additional MS Word (in which they perhaps do their letters or something) -

and they even succeed in getting sw for that pittance.

Unfortunately, they only get what they pay for, or just only slightly more.

Since on the other side on the table, offerings in that range of payment are made by hobbyists.

(As said before, real hobbyists not being able to do better, or, e.g. in the case of kinook, people having better things to do, for most of their time.)

So much for trolling, boy.