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  #1  
Old 12-05-2008, 02:50 PM
ashwken ashwken is offline
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Thanks for the Continued Support v.3.5c

v.3.5c 2008-12-05

http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...&threadid=3875

http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/download.html
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2008, 03:38 AM
tfjern tfjern is online now
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Amen to That!

Now that UR product development has come to a screeching halt, aside from a few occasional bug fixes (3.5c), I have been examining dozens of UR's competitors, esp. Zoot, InfoQube, MyInfo, Mybase, etc.), but I keep coming back to UR, despite its relatively minor limitations (e.g., lack of search hit highlighting) and the cold, terse, almost robotic (albeit informative) responses from kinook to questions posed on this forum. I get the same feeling when trying to read (via Stephen Hawking's intonation) the help file.

Will we ever see, in the Suggestions forum, a warm response from kinook like this: "Wow! Great suggestion, guys! We'll give it some careful thought. Stay tuned!"?

So when UR development was suspended a few weeks ago, it would have been nice to hear some details; after all, we spent our hard-earned money to buy and upgrade your product, so as loyal customers and earnest promoters (two of my UR's endorsements are featured on kinook's webpage) I think we deserve a little better than this.
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2008, 04:18 AM
wordmuse wordmuse is online now
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Re: Amen to That!

Quote:
Originally posted by tfjern
Will we ever see, in the Suggestions forum, a warm response from kinook like this: "Wow! Great suggestion, guys! We'll give it some careful thought. Stay tuned!"? [snip] I think we deserve a little better than this. [/B]
Much as I would like the warm fuzzy approach, I don't feel any kind of entitlement to it. Much as I would like more robust development, Kinook is a company in a free enterprise system.

The fact that you check competitors is good. It is good for Kinook to take that into account. It is good that if you find something better, that you should go for it. (And let me know - I might be right behind you!

But entitlement? No. Kinook has given me almost everything I asked for in a PM (hoisting being chief among my requests).

If/when development ever takes a robust turn again, I'll be back to post more suggestions (and I have quite a few - but not for a company that has put its *visible development* of its product into hibernation or the funeral parlor).

It's a great and wonderful product as it is.

The fact that it's standing still gives competitors a real opportunity to "dethrone the king." I look forward to the dethroning, as I, too, want more than what I already have. But for now, URP3 holds the crown.

If development of URP3 has died, may its reign be short indeed.

The gauntlet is thrown. Will Kinook pick it up and begin? We shall see.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:53 AM
tfjern tfjern is online now
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A warm, fuzzy approach and other frills...

Yes, wordmuse, by all means, let's lower our expectations about customer service and product development. As you said, "Kinook is a company in a free enterprise system," so they can do pretty much what they want, when they want. I live in the Far East, where customer service is (still) taken a little more seriously. Same planet, different world(s), I guess.
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2008, 08:12 PM
TMF TMF is online now
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Re: Amen to That!

Quote:
Will we ever see, in the Suggestions forum, a warm response from kinook like this: "Wow! Great suggestion, guys! We'll give it some careful thought. Stay tuned!"?
Probably not. Same as there are certain kinds of communication that we will not see from you. Or from me.

Quote:
(two of my UR's endorsements are featured on kinook's webpage)
You know well how to express yourself. You are probably very successfully employing your communication skills to great extent in your job and life.

Kinook guys are programmers. Digitally thinking. They are not the communication guys. They think in ones and zeros.
They are not even sales guys... Anything like a sales copy on their site? Nothing at all...

I would expect someone like you, possessing great communication skills, to be the one that shall put himself into another's shoes and see how we all are communicating differently, instead of requesting them that their way of communication be changed to match yours.

They have two product lines, one for tech guys and another for non-tech people (that's the UR). Have you seen the tech guys complaining about their way of communication? To them it's fine and very understandable way.

Quote:
Let's lower our expectations about customer service and product development. As you said, "Kinook is a company in a free enterprise system," so they can do pretty much what they want, when they want. I live in the Far East, where customer service is (still) taken a little more seriously.
They provide timely tech support and give technically correct info. Nothing more, that's true, but nothing less eithr.

Few days ago I talked to a friend and he is working on a system in a similar field (document and info storage), for a large company. $10 mil. contract, not mentioning the large per-month support fees. Here we have $49-99 software, support for life.

Some of the software that I have used in the past that became abandoned, was that the developers finally got tired of it all. Most are in it that they like it (usually development and not interacting with customers), but after all the problems with some of the customers (you'll only understand if you have worked in support position for some time), with collecting measly license fees, doing ten jobs in one, they get employed for few times their former income in the company that has the $10 mil. contracts and code happily ever after without ever having to be bothered again.

So while we are quite legitimately asking them to clear up certain things, we shall also let them have a fresh breath of air. Or it might come the thought they had few weeks ago will come back and more intensive, and they will kick our a***s for good, that all just due to different worlds we live in.
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2008, 11:01 PM
tfjern tfjern is online now
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Whatever...

In my reply to wordmuse (noted in one of TMF's quotes) I was being sarcastic, so I if you missed the sarcasm I guess I was not expressing myself very well after all.

I am well aware the kinook guys are geeky programmers, which is why some UR customers volunteered to make Camtasia videos to post online (kinook even set up a contest about this), as replacements for the so-called help file. Alas.

It would be nice to know some details about kinook's future plans regarding UR (why go through all the trouble of making Camtasia videos for a dead or dying product?). But to repeat what wordmuse said, kinook is a "company in a free enterprise system," and as such they don't owe us even the time of day. Like it or not, that's the system. Heaven forbid if we dare to raise questions about it.

P.s.: I just got an email from Tom at Zoot. Seems like a friendly guy. I guess he's the exception that proves the rule.
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2008, 07:09 AM
TMF TMF is online now
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Re: Whatever...

I guess I should have said, though I happened to write it in reply to your message, that my reaction is more of a general one (after reading all those similar reactions even contributing myself, over the past few weeks), I'm somewhat feeling we are beating on the door that will not open, and it would be better to let them have a breath of fresh air.

As anybody here I want more info, at the same time I fear that the development be stopped (current version works for me, but it feels bad to use abandoned sw).

Quote:
P.s.: I just got an email from Tom at Zoot. Seems like a friendly guy. I guess he's the exception that proves the rule. [/B]
Another example would be Pierre (InfoQube) - every user's dream.

Still I like UR more . (though wondering about Z6)
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2008, 12:06 AM
wordmuse wordmuse is online now
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So tfjern,

Let me understand...

In your view Kinook *OWES YOU* further development of a product that many here continue to acknowledge is superior to any of its competition? Wow!
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2008, 03:46 AM
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J-Mac J-Mac is online now
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Thanks From Here Also

I'd like to join Ken in thanking Kinook for the latest release. I'm glad to see it.

Jim
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2008, 03:53 AM
tfjern tfjern is online now
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Huh?

Who said anything about owing?

As far as I can remember I said, and several other UR customers on this forum have said the same thing as well, that it would be nice, repeat NICE, if kinook posted something about product development (yes, there is the roadmap, which was re-posted, but...).

UR is an outstanding product, vis-a-via its competitors, but there some things UR currently can't do (and e.g., Zoot 6.0 apparently will), and I for one am hoping UR development will be revived because I don't want to, among other things, go through the ordeal and expense of (again) changing PIMs.

By the way, I just got a very informative email from kinook that solved a problem I had about using EXCEL internally.
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2008, 01:56 PM
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Re: Huh?

Quote:
Originally posted by tfjern
Who said anything about owing?

As far as I can remember I said, and several other UR customers on this forum have said the same thing as well, that it would be nice, repeat NICE, if kinook posted something about product development (yes, there is the roadmap, which was re-posted, but...).

UR is an outstanding product, vis-a-via its competitors, but there some things UR currently can't do (and e.g., Zoot 6.0 apparently will), and I for one am hoping UR development will be revived because I don't want to, among other things, go through the ordeal and expense of (again) changing PIMs.

By the way, I just got a very informative email from kinook that solved a problem I had about using EXCEL internally.
Uh.. Oh, I see - you're responding to another post.

Since you posted a few minutes after I did, I thought this was a reply to me. Been scratching my head wondering why!

Keep smilin', tj.

Jim
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2008, 03:15 PM
wordmuse wordmuse is online now
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Maybe we're hoping for the same things; I just have a tough time taking Kinook to task for something I haven't paid for and which is not contractually owed.

It's Kinook's business whether to compete with Zoot or whoever. I'm content to adapt as products in the marketplace evolve.

For instance, I used to be a huge fan of Info Select. But, much to my dismay (not chagrin), they started developing it for an audience that clearly didn't include me - even though I was one of their first customers, when the product was called Tornado. Like here, I made lots of suggestions, many of which at first were implemented, and then decreasingly so. Finally the product went away from my ability to make use of it (and at a higher price). Clearly they no longer needed my business.

So I looked for an alternative, and eventually found URP. And URP is in most ways a superior product.

I never would have done that search had Micro Logic kept me as a member of its audience.

So the same holds with Kinook. And just as I hold nothing against Micro Logic, I will hold nothing against Kinook should something superior come along. It's all just business, and one thing about business: you have to adapt.

Peace.
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  #13  
Old 12-14-2008, 01:52 PM
dasymington dasymington is online now
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I'd also like to say thank you to Kinook for a great product and good support, and that I would be sorry if there were no further development.

I've been using UR for three and a half years and during that time I've paid a total of 99 USD for the original purchase and an upgrade. I think it's ridiculous that I've spent that amount of money on a product like this. I have UR open on my computer all the time. I use it to track actions in my personal life; I use it to manage my business, keeping track of projects, recording and analysing customer support calls, popping up reminders for VAT, tax and other returns: there's virtually nothing I do that isn't recorded in some way in UR - and all for 99 USD over three and a half years! Microsoft Office has cost me much more than that over the same period, and I don't use it nearly as much as UR.

So, if it's a question of money, I for one would be happy to pay for further upgrades.
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  #14  
Old 12-14-2008, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dasymington
I'd also like to say thank you to Kinook for a great product and good support, and that I would be sorry if there were no further development.

I've been using UR for three and a half years and during that time I've paid a total of 99 USD for the original purchase and an upgrade. I think it's ridiculous that I've spent that amount of money on a product like this. I have UR open on my computer all the time. I use it to track actions in my personal life; I use it to manage my business, keeping track of projects, recording and analysing customer support calls, popping up reminders for VAT, tax and other returns: there's virtually nothing I do that isn't recorded in some way in UR - and all for 99 USD over three and a half years! Microsoft Office has cost me much more than that over the same period, and I don't use it nearly as much as UR.

So, if it's a question of money, I for one would be happy to pay for further upgrades.
Man, I'd love to pick your mind to learn how to use URp that extensively! I'm still on baby steps!

Jim
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