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  #1  
Old 08-30-2008, 02:06 AM
bookman bookman is online now
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Search for folder as I type and F3 to search for Next Match

Under Tools, Options, Import, I have ticked Select location when importing or pasting from other applications.

Thus when I have clicked Copy to Ultra Recall, a dialog box would appear allowing me to select the appropriate folder.

Selecting a folder would be a cinch if I had say 5 folders, but after a while, I may have 100+ folders.

And I may name the folders

Software to Test
Ultra Recall Tips
Software General
General hardware
House Maintenance
Software Freeware
Books to read
Software Miscellaneous


Ideally, when I type software in the dialog box, it would start matching the characters as I type.

So if I type Softw quickly, I would end up with Software to Test being matched.

But what if I intended to go to Software Miscellaneous

There's no simple way to tell Ultra Recall to go to the next match such as in Firefox by pressing F3

Likewise, it would have been nice if matching need not start with the first character.

So for example, if I knew I had only the word Miscellaneous appearing in Software Miscellaneous, I could have just as easily just type Misc to get to the correct folder or for that matter cellan.

Do take note that the folders could also be scattered in any order in the Dialog box - ie they are not necessarily ordered nicely.

Actually, I should add that such a Search as you type enhancement should be there for all Dialog boxes or Pane
- such as the Jump Dialog box or the Data Explorer pane

Actually you will find this Search as you type not only in software like Firefox and Internet Explorer (although in IE's case, I think it is via the IE7Pro Add-in) in many other intuitively useful software that makes for a very friendly UI. See the thread at www.donationcoder.com below

SuperboyAC's DC blog #2 (Live Search feature in software) - DonationCoder.com
"The Live Search Feature
Fast and Fun Searching
"
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/...p?topic=7286.0

Last edited by bookman; 08-30-2008 at 02:21 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-30-2008, 04:15 AM
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This was already suggested, and I was against it ;-) (you can search the forum, it was quite long discussion)

There is already "filtering" in the main application. Go to search, click on "search titles only" and it will find items that match what you type on the fly. The filtering like you suggest could be implemented directly to UR data explorer, this was suggested many times, I think it would be quite useful for many users.

The "select location ..." dialogue is growing and growing, people suggested to be able to rename items, be able to create new item, etc. ...but all these are readily available in the main app, and I don't see the point to recreate this in some dialogue window again. I think this is waste of developer's time.

What is the difference?

1. you click on the button in Firefox, then some limited dialogue opens, and you wish there was this and that, at the end you click OK. Then you need to return to your browser, so you press alt-tab.

2. press alt-tab to navigate to UR from your browser, do whatever you need to do, create new items, rename them, navigate by "filtering" to the one you want, alt-tab to Firefox and click on the button.

The second option is only one alt-tab more (because you need the second alt-tab in the case 1 if you want to return to your browser)

For some people, even this one more press of alt-tab is too much, so what I suggested was this:

when you click on those buttons in your browser, instead of that dialogue window, the whole app would show up (if you had this in the setting), there would be some toolbar icon indicating that you have a web link in the clipboard. You do whatever you need to do, create/rename/filter/... at the end, instead of clicking on OK in the dialogue window, one would click on that toolbar icon. So it would be the same steps like using the limited dialogue, but you'd have the power of the whole UR at disposal.
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  #3  
Old 08-30-2008, 04:53 AM
bookman bookman is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by quant
This was already suggested, and I was against it ;-) (you can search the forum, it was quite long discussion)
I'm not sure if we are on the same topic. Perhaps I may have not expressed it in a very clear way.

Perhaps to make sure we are referring to the same thing, perhaps you can kindly point me to the thread you are referring to.

Thanks

Last edited by bookman; 08-30-2008 at 04:56 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-30-2008, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bookman
I'm not sure if we are on the same topic. Perhaps I may have not expressed it in a very clear way.

Perhaps to make sure we are referring to the same thing, perhaps you can kindly point me to the thread you are referring to.

Thanks
This was suggested:
in the dialogue, there would be a line above the explorer tree. It would filter the items in the tree as you type.

It was suggested many times for the main UR app, and there was a long discussion how it should display children etc. It is now on the roadmap http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthre...&threadid=3204
Some users also suggested this for the importing dialogue, which is very similar to what you're suggesting, I guess:
the advantage is that it shows all the matches at once instead of the need to go the next match by pressing F3. Disadvantage is that you lose the tree structure, which I presume would be still visible in your approach.
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Old 08-30-2008, 05:54 AM
bookman bookman is online now
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Thanks

Looks like I would need to take a while to wade through the discussion threads.

But in the meantime, perhaps allow me to just present a simple problem to illustrate a problem many face would likely face.

Just take another dialog, the Jump dialog rather than the Import into Ultra Recall dialog so that we don't cloud the issue with that of deciding where one should import an item into, be but restrict it to one of a generic navigation problem.

Essentially the problem is the same - it is how do one locate the folder needed easily and efficiently - hence drastically reducing the steps needed and then to accomplish what one wants to do in or with that folder.

So something as simple as Jumping to a folder (Alt L) dialog for example, if a user has to look for a folder - say one out of a hundred plus, it can be quite an effort.

If something takes too much effort, then it is unlikely to be used often.

So the F3, ie search again (the search is already implemented as least starting with the first character - although not so the search starting from any character) may not take a lot of developmental effort.
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  #6  
Old 08-30-2008, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bookman
Just take another dialog, the Jump dialog rather than the Import into Ultra Recall dialog so that we don't cloud the issue with that of deciding where one should import an item into, be but restrict it to one of a generic navigation problem.

Essentially the problem is the same - it is how do one locate the folder needed easily and efficiently - hence drastically reducing the steps needed and then to accomplish what one wants to do in or with that folder.
yes, and this was discussed as well, again the dialogue is waste of developers time, IMHO. Second data explorer pane was suggested, and it is on the roadmap as well ;-)
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  #7  
Old 08-30-2008, 06:34 AM
bookman bookman is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by quant
yes, and this was discussed as well, again the dialogue is waste of developers time, IMHO. Second data explorer pane was suggested, and it is on the roadmap as well ;-)
My only comment is the Dialog is an Interface to the user - does it help make the user life easier or not so easy.

Perhaps, whether this is a waste of developer's time is best left to the developer to decide - because none of us really knows the program better than he does.

Kevina is probably in a better position to decide whether he prefers to invest the time to make the user's job easier so that he can eventually reap a return on his time or he decides that the X hours he would spend would be better invested in something else so that he reaps a greater return on his time.

It is really as you say, an allocation of scarce resources but he has to be the judge.
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Old 08-30-2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bookman
It is really as you say, an allocation of scarce resources but he has to be the judge.
sure, no question about it. The point of this forum is to discuss various approaches, their pros and cons, and ultimately it will be developers who decide what path to take ...
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bookman
My only comment is the Dialog is an Interface to the user - does it help make the user life easier or not so easy.
Have a look at the jump dialogue for example. The developers added new features to it, like "insert", "rename". But the next suggestion could be that you don't want to insert default child but some other. Then imagine you make a mistake, so you would like to delete in that dialogue,etc ... in the end they would keep on adding features (and spending time ;-) ) that are already available in the main application. So it makes sense to just have another data explorer where EVERYTHING is already available, nothing to add what is not already in the main app. I think the same applies to your suggestion. If there is some filtering + F3 done, then I'd prefer if it's made on the application level, not in some dialogue. In this case, you could use your filtering any time, not just when jumping ... the same with importing dialogue ... just my point of view
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:31 AM
bookman bookman is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by quant
Have a look at the jump dialogue for example. The developers added new features to it, like "insert", "rename". But the next suggestion could be that you don't want to insert default child but some other. Then imagine you make a mistake, so you would like to delete in that dialogue,etc ... in the end they would keep on adding features (and spending time ;-) ) that are already available in the main application. So it makes sense to just have another data explorer where EVERYTHING is already available, nothing to add what is not already in the main app. I think the same applies to your suggestion. If there is some filtering + F3 done, then I'd prefer if it's made on the application level, not in some dialogue. In this case, you could use your filtering any time, not just when jumping ... the same with importing dialogue ... just my point of view
Actually quant, we are really in deep agreement on this.

You will find like in many programs mentioned in this thread earlier, even in programs like Firefox or X1 etc the search as you type is system wide.

There is likely no specific "implementation" at dialog box level so to speak of.

When I gave the example of Jump, yes, it may be a dialog box I'm talking about, but I have to refer to something.

But in many programming situations, with the little knowledge I have, I'm sure it is applied system wide.

In fact, the Jump, Link/Move, Import to Ultra Recall looks exactly the same. It is modularized.

I do not believe that for a smart programmer like Kevina who can write a program like Ultra Recall, the Dialog Box presents any problem at all - it is probably a modular sub routine which is called by another program.

In fact, each Dialog Box look exactly the same - except for the Title of each Box.

I used to write some VBA routines and in like maybe 80% to 90 % of the time, I reuse a piece of code and modify just a small portion of it - no big deal.

A couple of examples in Ultra Recall you can test for yourself to demonstrate that what the programmer does is really system wide.

To quote from your example "insert", "rename".

Just because Kevina added the Insert and Rename in the Dialog Box, it does not mean he had spent a lot of time on it - in fact, it is mere cosmetics if I may venture - a really insignificant amount of time really - perhaps someone else with programming experience can validate what I say.

In fact you can accomplish the Insert (and even Insert Child) and Rename without even the two Buttons provided by the Dialog Boxes.

Just do this test -

Just press Alt - J to call up the Jump Dialog Box
Click any folder or item you see.

Press the Ins key on your Keyboard - You actually start a New Folder - without using the Button in the Dialog Box.

Similarly, highlight any item.
Now press F2
What do you have - you are in the rename mode, just as if you have actually pressed the Rename Button on the Dialog Box only that you didn't.

Similarly, if you again click the ALREADY selected item and wait for a moment - like about 1 sec, you are again in the rename mode - same as if you have actually pressed the Rename Button on the Dialog Box only that you didn't.

In fact, you can try this Ins and F2 anywhere throughout Ultra Recall without a Insert Button or Rename Button - it is implemented system wide whether in the Explorer Pane, Search Pane or Link/Move, Import to Ultra Recall Dialog Boxes.

In fact this is possibly implemented at the OS level and the Dialog Box Insert and Rename Buttons are really to call up the ALREADY available functions for those unaware of it.

So we can really help Kevina to help all users if each of us focus our energies on sharing user perspectives about how the Ultra Recall could be made easier to use - basically things only users like us can see that the programmer is unlikely to see simply because he's not a "Novice User" like us.

We then best leave it to him to judge how best to implement or not to implement - best not to second guess the effort required - none of us are equipped to do it.

Now if each of us have to second guess how much effort is required to implement a certain functionality, then how many of us are going to make any suggestions at all.

The net result is we end up with little or no suggestions at all and Kevina will spend even more time trying to second guess what users like to see - and that requires a heck of a lot of time and effort on his part and besides it would not be possible for him to do this role well.

For what it's worth, the more friendly a user interface, the greater Ultra Recall market penetration.

Think iPhone - it's the user interface that has made it into a game changer and the rest are now trying to play catch up.

I don't think anyone of us would like to see Ultra Recall end up as a program that is too hard to use or understand.

I'm taking the trouble to articulate my thoughts simply because I would like to make better use of Ultra Recall and I think intuitiveness is really an art - see below

Better for us to keep the creative suggestions flowing and let him do the judgment call on the time required and decide if it is worth his time investment.

Perhaps Kevina can chime in on this last statement with his words of wisdom.

Apologies for the long post - I do care about success of Ultra Recall just like many of the forum users here.

Thank you and of course, I acknowledged that I may be absolutely wrong in all that I have said above.

PS.

An example of what a great user interface can do in another program take a look at :

(The thread below on Fineprint was viewed 34000 times as of today)

Mini-Review of Fineprint (Virtual Printer) - DonationCoder.com

"No convoluted step by step tutorials needed - fly solo on your first flight with Fineprint !

Hmm, it looks like the only thing missing is the kitchen sink.

This program is so well designed it is a real "Work of Art" and very functional at that !"
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/...p?topic=6519.0

Last edited by bookman; 08-31-2008 at 02:03 AM.
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