UR using Too Many Resources

[schferk]

Very good advice, armsys, and only some of those I had read earlier. Very helpful indeed.

Now, for the risk of appearing dumb as far as I'm concerned, let's clarify for new users or people like me who haven't been too much interested in importing otherwise than text content, with some pictures / graphics here and there, but muse what could be possible, otherwise - I might be mistaken in what follows:

In UR, there are 3 ways for processing content:

a) Just link. In this case, content is not indexed, hence not searchable from within UR. This might be the case for linked .mht's, and linked .pdf's - or are just-linked pdf's UR-searchable? Or, is no such external file indexable here ? (but see b)

b) Embed. With embedding, an external file stays outside of the UR db, but is linked, and its content is (necessarily? or are there other indexed

c) Import. Here, the external file is stuffed into the UR db (which means it will bloat it, etc. - so in any case we don't miss something by just embedding, embedding is preferable to importing, so why ever import a file into UR to begin with? but see below).

In this case, everything (?) is searchable? Probably not, since UR presumably doesn't "know" special file formats, which it can import = stock, but not index. So, which file formats are indexable here? I suppose .mht (?), and certainly .pdf, right? Also, Word files, I suppose, .txt, .html, .rtf?

If I understand well, both b and c will have the same indexing characteristics: a file format that is indexable in b, is indexable (and that always means, searchable) in c, too, and vice versa - but is that so?

And, if I understand well, the only (?) advantage of c over b would be that the external file will be exported within the corresponding UR sub-tree, whenever you export that, since it's contained in it; on the other hand, embedded files would need to be manually moved / copied within a folder that would accompany the corresponding UR sub-tree (= exported into a neb UR file), and any such file you don't move / copy, will produce a broken link within the UR tree, and worse, whenever you search for their indexed content, it will probably produce false hits, when in fact the source for these indexe words isn't there anymore.

Sideline: Even when you manually move / copy the embedded files in question, you'll probably get broken links, since the name and / or path of the corresponding folders will not be the same anymore - which makes me muse that perhaps UR could have have implemented a comman which would update the path, on condition that you have the folder name (= last part of the path) unchanged; this solution would help UR users to embed a max of files, instead of having to import them for the sole reason of them staying "transportable". EDIT: And there might be a routine implemented into UR that does "verify the links to embedded files within the selected subtree and list any broken links".

And finally, the sole difference between a) and b) would be that b) automatically indexes linked files and otherwise presents these b) files as the a) files, within the tree? Both would appear as links there, and it's just your knowing that e.g. Word files are indexed, that would make you know the link for file abc.xyz is not indexed, meaning it's just a link, and the link for file abc.doc is indexed, meaning this link is an embedded file?

I suppose that there might be some people here in this forum that would be as thankful as I'd be to have all these questions answered, in a systemtic way, i.e. if somebody knowing the details of putting files into UR retook this schema a-b-c here, but with the respective corrected info in it.

[armsys]

Hi schferk,
I know one day inevitably I'll come across your mentally consuming verbose manifestos.
I'm terribly sorry: With due respect, I get lost once again. What are your points?
Please indulge my curiosity:
1. How much time do you spend to compose your prolific manifestos here?
2. Have you actually ever exercised due diligence in experimenting with products before publishing your magnificent manifestos here? For example, for RM, have you actually tested your RM dashboard(s) with topics/tasks embedded in 30 or more respective mission-critical mindmaps?

[Nobodo]

ROFL!

I still come to the kinook forums occasionally just to see if there are any new books that have been recently released.

[schferk]

RM
Have answered in due place.

Composing time
Above answer cost me 35 min. incl. the time to develop my points. When in focus, I often think rather fast, and - and here's the quirk that makes reading me strenuous -, while writing, I also catch all the relevant little details from my mind in order to "complete" the sub-subject as far as I'm able to do that, at the time. I also do not revise then, in order to bring it into better order, leaving the sub-details slightly misplaced - the reason for this is my knowing that further on, I'll get a better grasp of it all, which will then invalidate some of my points, and some day indeed, I should put it all into the right order - when I'm not any more in the groping-around stage. On the other hand, even this intermediate stage brings enough new insight that's worth to be shared; I judge this from what I otherwise find, in the web, and in publications available to me. It's also about ordering knowledge, and systematizing it, whilst anywhere in the web, the good things are enormously scattered, and with very big holes in between.

Back to topic
I know there is the help file. I admit I have developed sort of a phobia vàv the UR help file, and I remember that of course there is some info that could inform me about some aspects of my question. But then, it has decidedly be my intention to ask like a newcomer to UR would ask: 1, 2, 3: 3 different kinds to put external things into UR, or to just link them to UR, and have it all together, one by one, from the lightest way of "connecting it to UR" down to the "most integrated" way (but which, for its blowing up the amount of date in UR, hence rising answering times, and even perhaps, at some point, stability probs, should be avoided whenever possible).

So a new user of UR, or a prospect for UR, would like to have such a COMPREHENSIVE account of this part of UR's functionality, from HIS point of view, i.e. deciding, which kind of external stuff can be put into UR in which way, and thus, what will I decide upon this kind of external stuff, and of that... and of course, such a comprehensive "simili-table" would also make evident any sensible but missing functionality that UR might have, at this point.

So here again, it's about systematization of knowledge, here about a CORE feature of any such sw, i.e. "how to store things in it, other than text". Please imagine a UR prospect: At this time, he's forced to get this basic, essential info from driving forth and back in several help file items, and even after this dreadful voyage, he probably will NOT be able to make the above-tried systematic "table", but will be in doubt about more than one detail here.

Hence the utmost interest of UR to provide that thing that I have tried to begin above, and where I certainly will have made numerous errors. But's it up to UR to clarify UR for new users, in order to make it a never-ending IQ test for every possible new UR user to gather his knowledge about UR on his own, and for every such prospect (or worse, new user) again, and again - that's a lot of extravagance UR shifts upon its (potential) users.

And since UR doesn't seem to see the urgent need for a better help file - of which my beginning of a systematization was only an example -, it would be so kind if experienced UR users helped all of us out here, took what I wrote above, put it into a new entry form, and weeded out any of my numerous mistakes and possible misconceptions there.

[armsys]

This time your 35-min. manifesto is barely manageable within my humble intellectual capacity.
By simple mathematical interpolation, your other manifestos published on this forum could range from 90 to 120 minutes.
Logically, it comes to 3 intriguing questions:
[1] What's your income-earning profession?
[2] Due to your peculiar writing style, are you a German?
[3] How come you leave no cyber footprint on the internet?

Apparently you missed the answer to your oft-mentioned RM vs. UR.
I appreciate you share with us your methodology of how you develop and organize your ideas when composing your magnificent manifestos here.
"Order" appears 6 times in your above manifesto. IMHO, on the contrary, UR never promotes order per se. UR is an unstructured database, save some basic attributes.
Regarding my UR learning, I actually took extensive notes from the entire online help on the Ultra Recall. Most "info items" are heavily tagged with "keys." Every year, I return back to my URD (UR database) exclusively on Ultra Recall to review the entire knowledge. That's exactly the 5th year what I'm doing now. And I'm still learning.
Sincerely hope you enjoy using your UR.

[schferk]

What I deception!

I came back here to get some (even intermediary) development on this link-embed-import theme, but nope.

(I admit that (both) my mother('s) (t, God save her soul) language were/are German, whilst I'm not, and since I never spoke English in my whole life, my composing posts in English gives me some English writing practice at least, especially if I try to write fast (there's also the electronic version of Langenscheidt Handwörterbuch ever-running that I consult about 2 to 3 times the half-hour - 120 min. would mean a very long post, though, or 2 consecutive and rather extensive posts with a little, not "thinking", but "thoughts-breeding" time, in-between.)

"Apparently you missed the answer to your oft-mentioned RM vs. UR." and ""Order" appears 6 times"
Answer in due place

"took extensive notes" and "Every year, I return back"
That's what I mean, every user has to do this work on his own, since there is no such consolidated knowledge made available by the help file, but only scattered details (with rare exceptions), and not speaking of the UR phenomenon (I have never seen in such an extreme nature elsewhere) that you travel around in a closed set of multi-referential dead-ends NOT containing the crucial info anywhere, and without knowing where the info might be out of this self-referential set. And I said, why forcing everybody to do this work for himself? Why not make it available once and for all, even by way of a collaboration here in this forum, and then it's set, instead of anybody having to do the same aggregation work again and again. Besides, I'm just a little bit angry here since I've clearly made my point long ago, and though, I'm forced to repeat again and again - your saying how you do it, is just ANOTHER proof that the how-to's of UR are so unintuitive that only regular revising what you labourously collected for you holds it all together somehow, makes it available again, more or less.

I brought a very good example above, and in spite of my explaining what's the interest in ordered aggregation here, collaboratively (and thus avoiding indidual mistakes and misconceptions, if every user is out on his own), you simply repeat, between the lines, that is has been so forever, chacun pour soi, and so be it further on!

Another example is that weird "first steps" problem, where UR newcomers don't easily get how to do siblings and children, for just normal, basic content items, but where they wonder a long time (or quit, in-between) how all these different templates might function together, and I remember very well my very first try with UR - I even deleted the trial since I thought it was broken! (I had tried desparately to get content into a template that's not for content, over many minutes, and by all means possible - was also a problem of the terminology employed for the different templates.) And to say the truth, I got also more and more fed up with UR because I simply didn't get some concepts, even with (some simili, some real) help in the forum, let alone my wandering for hours over that caricature of a help file), and whenever I had "got" something, but for a function rarely used, a month later, I hadn't the slightest idea left how to make that functionality work I knew was there - so much for the "intuitiveness" of this prog. On the other hand, I say, it's rock-stable, and I know what I'm saying, my db having exceeded 1 giga, whilst in MI, for db's of 30 mega, lot's of crashing, lotsa a time.

So what I'm saying here, I KNOW about the real advantages of UR, but I'm getting more and more disappointed with the general rule here, from kinook AND from forists, that these things might stay unshakeable, but see, for most possible users, it's very simple:

For them, functions that are implemented in so weird a way that they cannot access them, cannot make them work for them, are simply as "good" as are function that ain't there to begin with. And that, for many a prospective user, puts the "value" of UR, from his subjective pov, into perspective, and in a very unfavourable way for UR: He gets hand on just SOME functions, the minor ones, of UR, doesn't get to the elaborate ones - and so, he's back to his starting position where he compares UR to 30-bucks outliners, which on top of that, even for the basic functionlity (see above), are much more "accessible": No need there to make your aggregation of the "help" file topics on your own, and have numerous cheat sheets on hand, just in order to do quite normal things with your IMS, there!

So, fellow posters, by repeating that it's each individual's own duty to individually cutting his way thru this jungle, you will NOT improve UR's current market position, and hence, there is quite little chance that UR's slow development - of which many here ain't happy, and say so - will ever accelerate - whilst collaboratively making UR's functionality much more available to prospects that it currently is, could at least a good step in the right direction, especially if kinook motivates current users by doing some necessary developing work (typical example: UR comes along "high-brow". Then there isn't formatting in its tree. But, thanks to his "high-brow" impression he gets from this prog, a prospect will blame himself for not finding the according function, when in fact it's not there. So he will spend a lot of time searching when it would have been much better, marketing-wise, to let him know, outright, that formatting in the tree is planned for next year only. People love such straight info that spares them a lot of time and frustration).

But then, I often think I'm speaking to a stone wall and better had let it go: I've too much having to repeat myself here, and with no result.

[armsys]

Vielen Dank für Ihre Antwort.
1. Annual review is uniquely my study habit, which is hardly applicable to other users.
2. I'm a contented user of UR.
3. I find the UR online manual useful and helpful, IMHO.
4. Please kindly name an online manual whish is distinctively better than UR's. Enlighten us.
5. I don't detect any connection between "chacun pour soi" and the UR, but I respect your view.
Have a niece weekend.
Enjoy using your UR.